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Turkish Translation

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A very short sentence T>E lutfen
1.       Tazx1
435 posts
 19 Mar 2008 Wed 02:42 am

A story begins like this:-

1. "Geçimini zorla temin eden fakir, yumuşak huylu bir adam vardi. Ağzı var, dili yok ....""

What would be the exact translation of this, with special reference to "Geçimini" and "Ağız", please?

It seems that 'Ağzı' is a misprint. Am I correct?

I can locate 'Ağız' = mouth, & also
'Ağzı Bozuk' = abusive !!
Both meanings clash with 'Dili yok, temin, and yumuşak' caharcter of the man !

Tesekkur ederim Tazx1

2.       MarioninTurkey
6124 posts
 19 Mar 2008 Wed 08:27 am

Quoting Tazx1:

A story begins like this:-

1. "Geçimini zorla temin eden fakir, yumuşak huylu bir adam vardi. Ağzı var, dili yok ....""

What would be the exact translation of this, with special reference to "Geçimini" and "Ağız", please?



Geçim: to get by financially
Geçimini: the possessive of this: i.e. his getting by financially

Ağız: mouth
Ağzı: his/her mouth


There was once a poor man, who struggled to get by financially, and who was gentle. He had a mouth, but no tongue....


3.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 19 Mar 2008 Wed 11:58 am

Ağzı var dili yok is an expression. It means: he can speak but he don't speak much, he doesn't like talking too much.

4.       erdinc
2151 posts
 19 Mar 2008 Wed 12:04 pm

caliptrix,
You beat me on this. I missed your message as I was writing the below.

Hello,

"Ağzı var dili yok" (having a mouth but no tongue) is an idiom. It means the person hardly spoke. The person didn't speak much.

The word "geçim" is a noun. It means 'living cost' or just 'living' if the word is used in the same context. For instance the sentence, "What do you do for living?" could be translated as, "Geçimini nasıl sağlıyorsun?".

geçim+i+n+i :noun+third person possessive suffix+n buffer+accusative case

If we conjugate the noun with possessive suffix it will be like this:
benim geçim+im
senin geçim+in
onun geçim+i
bizim geçim+imiz
sizin geçim+iniz
onların geçim+i

After possessive suffixes we use the n buffer instead the y buffer. The n buffer is necessary to devide two vowels. The -i that comes to the very end of that word is the accusative case. We use it because sağlamak (to provide) takes the -i case. Temin etmek (to provide) takes the -i case as well.

In other words, the accusative is part of the following verb, sağlamak. "-i sağlamak" (to provide something) would take the -i case no matter what noun we would use as the object of it.

There are countles examples to this rule.
-i görmek: to see something
-i bilmek: to know something
-i düşÃ¼nmek : to thing about something
-i sevmek : to like something
-i sağlamak : to provide something
-i temin etmek : to provide something

In Turkish we have 'y', 'n' and 's' buffers.

Y is used with case suffixes and tense suffixes that don't have a possessive suffix:

Kediye bak. (kedi+y+e : noun+y buffer+dative case)
Bu kediyi çok seviyorum. (kedi+y+i : noun+y buffer+accusative case)
Bu küçük kedi yakında yürüyecek. (yürü+y+ecek : verb stem+ y buffer + future tense suffix)

S is used with possessive suffixes :
Bu Ali'nin kedisi. (kedi+s+i : noun + s buffer + third person possessive suffix).

N buffer is used with case suffixes where the noun has a preceeding possessive suffix:
Ali'nin kedisini hiç sevmiyorum. (kedi+s+i+n+i :noun + s buffer + 3rd person possessive suffix + n buffer + accusative case)

One detail about the N buffer is that it can nly be used after third person singular and plural possesive suffixes because only those end with a vowel.

As for the other word, the nominative is 'ağız' (mouth). The rule is that, (generally, but not always) words with two syllables (therefore two vowels) that have a flat second vowel will drop that vowel if they take a suffix that starts with a vowel.

Flat vowels are ı,i,u,ü. Ağız, alın, burun, beyin, etc. all have two vowels. All have a flast second vowel. Therefore all will drop that second vowel when they are followed by a suffix that starts with a vowel.

Lets use the first person possessive suffix as an example:
ağız> benim ağzım (instead ağızım)
alın> benim alnım (instead alınım)
burun> benim burnum (instead burunum)
beyin> benim beynim (instead (beyinim)

5.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 19 Mar 2008 Wed 12:12 pm

Quoting erdinc:

caliptrix,
You beat me on this. I missed your message as I was writing the below.



Hoş geldin
Uzun zamandır yoktun, özlettin kendini

6.       erdinc
2151 posts
 19 Mar 2008 Wed 12:14 pm

Evet, böyle ara sıra uğruyorum. Görüşmek üzere tekrar.

7.       MarioninTurkey
6124 posts
 19 Mar 2008 Wed 04:49 pm

Quoting erdinc:

Evet, böyle ara sıra uğruyorum. Görüşmek üzere tekrar.


Daha sık sık uğrasenize! Sizden öğreneklerimiz çok!

8.       Tazx1
435 posts
 19 Mar 2008 Wed 07:36 pm

Caliptrix, erdine and Marionin

Thank you all. Erdine thank you for explaining the use of buffer letters. The 'paranomial N', used as a buffer in 3rd person Sing/Plu, confuses me a lot ... especially if I do not understand one or two adjacent words in a sentence. I have to look very hard to see if it is
[-in-i] or [-i-(n)-i] ... specially when it involves,

-lerini and
-digini.

My dislexia is also a problem. But, thank you all exceedingly.

My mother tongue is Urdu [1st lang. Eng]. Use of punctuation marks in Urdu is [in majority] left to the imagination of the reader and this does not seem to cause too much difficulty. I notice similar phenomenon with Turkish. However, since I was dubious regarding the exact nature of 'Gecimini' ... I could not decide whether 'zorla' applied to the preceding word or with the proceeding word 'temin'.

THANK YOU ... CALIPTRIX, ERDINE, MARIONIN

'all for one & one for all'

9.       yazmin_cita
196 posts
 19 Mar 2008 Wed 07:49 pm

Quoting erdinc:

caliptrix,
You beat me on this. I missed your message as I was writing the below.

Hello,

"Ağzı var dili yok" (having a mouth but no tongue) is an idiom. It means the person hardly spoke. The person didn't speak much.

The word "geçim" is a noun. It means 'living cost' or just 'living' if the word is used in the same context. For instance the sentence, "What do you do for living?" could be translated as, "Geçimini nasıl sağlıyorsun?".

geçim+i+n+i :noun+third person possessive suffix+n buffer+accusative case

If we conjugate the noun with possessive suffix it will be like this:
benim geçim+im
senin geçim+in
onun geçim+i
bizim geçim+imiz
sizin geçim+iniz
onların geçim+i

After possessive suffixes we use the n buffer instead the y buffer. The n buffer is necessary to devide two vowels. The -i that comes to the very end of that word is the accusative case. We use it because sağlamak (to provide) takes the -i case. Temin etmek (to provide) takes the -i case as well.

In other words, the accusative is part of the following verb, sağlamak. "-i sağlamak" (to provide something) would take the -i case no matter what noun we would use as the object of it.

There are countles examples to this rule.
-i görmek: to see something
-i bilmek: to know something
-i düşÃ¼nmek : to thing about something
-i sevmek : to like something
-i sağlamak : to provide something
-i temin etmek : to provide something

In Turkish we have 'y', 'n' and 's' buffers.

Y is used with case suffixes and tense suffixes that don't have a possessive suffix:

Kediye bak. (kedi+y+e : noun+y buffer+dative case)
Bu kediyi çok seviyorum. (kedi+y+i : noun+y buffer+accusative case)
Bu küçük kedi yakında yürüyecek. (yürü+y+ecek : verb stem+ y buffer + future tense suffix)

S is used with possessive suffixes :
Bu Ali'nin kedisi. (kedi+s+i : noun + s buffer + third person possessive suffix).

N buffer is used with case suffixes where the noun has a preceeding possessive suffix:
Ali'nin kedisini hiç sevmiyorum. (kedi+s+i+n+i :noun + s buffer + 3rd person possessive suffix + n buffer + accusative case)

One detail about the N buffer is that it can nly be used after third person singular and plural possesive suffixes because only those end with a vowel.

As for the other word, the nominative is 'ağız' (mouth). The rule is that, (generally, but not always) words with two syllables (therefore two vowels) that have a flat second vowel will drop that vowel if they take a suffix that starts with a vowel.

Flat vowels are ı,i,u,ü. Ağız, alın, burun, beyin, etc. all have two vowels. All have a flast second vowel. Therefore all will drop that second vowel when they are followed by a suffix that starts with a vowel.

Lets use the first person possessive suffix as an example:
ağız> benim ağzım (instead ağızım)
alın> benim alnım (instead alınım)
burun> benim burnum (instead burunum)
beyin> benim beynim (instead (beyinim)




soooooo very helpful erdinc!! I hope turkish grammar becomes more clear to me some day.... It is sooo hard for me..

10.       erdinc
2151 posts
 19 Mar 2008 Wed 10:28 pm

Hello Tazx1,

Yes it is sometimes difficult with the N buffer. Both with -lerini and -diğini the rule is that if it is second person then it must me -in possessive suffix and no buffer. But if it is third person then it must be n buffer after i possessive suffix.

Zorla is an adverb. So it modifies the verb temin etmek. The -le, -la suffix in zorla is a typical adverb suffix. We have also, güçlükle, zorlukla, güzellikle, kolaylıkla, etc.

"Temin etmek" is a little old fashioned. These days we use "sağlamak". "Geçim" is the object of that verb.

geçimini temin etmek: to earn a living
geçimini sağlamak: to earn a living
geçimini kolayca sağlamak: to earn a living easily
geçimini zorla sağlamak: to earn a living hardly

On the other hand, in your particular sentence there is a long adjective clause that modifies the subject:

"Geçimini zorla temin eden" : adjective clause
(one that makes a living in a hard way)

fakir: adjective (poor)

"yumuşak huylu" : adjective (gentle tempered, easy going)

"bir adam": subject (a man)

vardı : predicate (there was)
The word "var" is an adjective. We put adjectives and nouns into the same category. They both build noun sentences.

There was a poor and gentle man who earned his living hard. He hardly spoke...

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