Allahaşukur I am very gradually begining to decipher the
-dik particle ... but like an eel it still eludes me from time to time. Ama ummarim yavaş yavas iyileşiyor.

I need expert help with this efendim. An exact [as much as possible] translation from E>T:-

"Child abduction is a crime that rich families fear".

I have translated this in two ways, and am not sure which is better or, whether both are incorrect?

1. Zengin ailelerin korktuğu bir suç, çocuk kaçirma-dir.

2. çocuk kaçirma, zengin ailelerin kortuğu bir suçtur.

What is the expert opinion, lutfen?

Hello,

Your second translation is perfect.

"Çocuk kaçırma, zengin ailelerin korktuğu bir suçtur."

In this sentence, although it is possible to use the third person plural version "korktukları", I too would use the singular version like you did. This is a more modern approach. I think your grammar is very advanced.

Notice that, instead using the past participle we could use a verbal adjective suffix which would create a sentence that is slightly different in meaning.

"Çocuk kaçırma, zengin aileleri korkutan bir suçtur."

The sentence structure you have shown on your first version has the emphasis on "çocuk kaçırma".

Both your sentences use the same past participle "korktuğu", so your question is more about the complement "-dir" and about emphasis. The first version you have shown isn't very likely since the sentence structure isn't in harmony with the meaning. But I changed it. In such a sentence that word order would make sense:

"Zengin ailelerin korktuğu bir başka suç da çocuk kaçırmadır."

In general, your level of Turkish is very advanced. All you need is to read a little more and master the written language.

edrinç Bey

Merhaba

Guldurme beni

You have precisely identified my main [underlying] concern even though I did not mention it patently. It was regarding '-dir' exactly as you mention.

No great credit can be ascribed to me, but being a teacher of Maths may have something to do with application of syntax, subconciously. But thank you for your kind remarks.

Truth is that my confidence is very fragile ... and it takes me an age to write down things in Turkish. My reading comprehension is slightly better ... but I really envy people who can speak Turkish, even if it is flawed. I just do not know when I will be able to breach the psychologocal barrier that prevents my ability to speak.

Thanks for your analytical help.
Selam. Mumtaz

Erdinç, could you explain me the difference in meaning between

Çocuk kaçırma, zengin ailelerin kortuğu bir suçtur.

Çocuk kaçırma, zengin ailelerin korkutan bir suçtur.


I see their grammatical difference ofcourse, but when translating, I would not know the difference?


Please enlighten me.

Merhaba Tazx1,

I wouldn't worry at all about spoken language. Instead I would read and then read more. You can completely ignore spoken Turkish until the very end. Improving vocabulary and getting used to sentence structure is the key.

Basically there are two ways to learn a language. One is the communication based strategy where you learn dialogues and phrases and talk about simple subject related to real life issues and the other is the text based strategy.

If reading is easier for you than talking then I would say the best thing to do is continue reading and ignore talking completely. When you have a vocabulary around 3000 words and you are used to sentence structures (which comes again with reading) then speaking will be just a small addition you need to add at the end. You need to keep the progress. You can not stop now because speaking looks difficult to you.

When you master the written language good enough you will start speaking as if you were speaking Turkish all your life.

I choose the text based strategy myself when I was learning English. I started at the age of twenty four. I was reading Sherlock Holmes books a few months after I started as a complete beginner. I studied little grammar but I read a lot. I think grammar is tiring down learners. You don't need too much grammar. If you understand the sentences that you read, then your grammar is sufficient.

When compared to written language, spoken language looks very poor to me.



Deli_kizin,

The second sentence should have "aileleri" instead "ailelerin".

Korktuğu comes from korkmak (to be afraid of, to fear) while korkutan comes from korkutmak (to scare, to make them fear).

Çocuk kaçırma, zengin ailelerin korktuğu bir suçtur.
Child abduction is a crime that rich families fear.

Çocuk kaçırma, zengin aileleri korkutan bir suçtur.
Child abduction is a crime that scares rich families.

Ohh ofcourse!! Thank you, I didnt notice korkmak vs korkutmak.

Sen de merhaba edrinç Bey

Thank you for your comforting, encouraging and re-assuring words and for your advice.

I shall ceratinly act upon your advice, as for the rest -- speaking Turkish 'ki' -- I hope your optimism is justified and I will wake up one fine morning and begin to converse in Turkish.

There is no possibilty, absolutely none, that I shall ever give up my endeavour in Turkish. I passionately love everything Turkish [have done so since my childhood]. Infact, I imbibed love of Turkey along with my mother's milk [A'.. rahmet etsin] she loved Turkey. Hakiki bir hekaye anlatayim sana -- even as I write this, there is a Turkish man living in Istanbul, who will stand witness to what my mother did for him while he was a poor lonely foreigner, studying in India ... and just because he was Turkish.

My only regret is that I delayed learning Turkish for so long. However, better late than never.

Selam