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Being a turkish citizen and ethnicity
1.       mltm
3690 posts
 09 Oct 2008 Thu 12:44 am

mltm
3038 posts

Quote --- Modify

 08 Oct 2008 Wed 04:13 pm

 

 

Quoting azade

 Well, that´s one way to put it. But he only got that far because because he repressed his kurdish side

 

 He does not need to repress anything, because there´s no need to reveal and emphasize your ethnic origin. Do you know that in Turkey it´s not very possible to find a "real ethnic Turk", most of the people have different origins, laz, circassian, bulgar, greek, armenian, arab, kurd, russian, georgian, iranian,jewish and so many different ethnics, with different amounts. So why would it be different for Kurds? For centuries, you have been living together and you are similar. No one asks about ethnics in Turkey because there´s no need to know it. So what would you expect the president to say, "I´m a Kurd"?, and so what?

     

WarTrain
259 posts
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 08 Oct 2008 Wed 04:15 pm

 

 

Quoting mltm

 He does not need to repress anything, because there´s no need to reveal and emphasize your ethnic origin. Do you know that in Turkey it´s not very possible to find a "real ethnic Turk", most of the people have different origins, there´re many people turkish-kurdish as well. So for centuries, you have been living together and you are similar. No one asks about ethnics in Turkey because there´s no need to know it.

 

 Strange

From what I hear the Turkish police need a lesson from Meltem in "living together" and "no one asks about ethnics" - they target and discriminate against Kurds on a regular basis ......

thehandsom
3042 posts
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 08 Oct 2008 Wed 04:18 pm

 

 

Quoting mltm

 He does not need to repress anything, because there´s no need to reveal and emphasize your ethnic origin. Do you know that in Turkey it´s not very possible to find a "real ethnic Turk", most of the people have different origins, there´re many people turkish-kurdish as well. So for centuries, you have been living together and you are similar. No one asks about ethnics in Turkey because there´s no need to know it.

 

when we were living together for centuries, no one was screaming to their faces ´How glorious to be a Turk´ or  telling them ´if you dont say it you are my enemy´..

2.       mltm
3690 posts
 09 Oct 2008 Thu 12:47 am

38.      

 Meltem says

 

Quoting thehandsom

when we were living together for centuries, no one was screaming to their faces ´How glorious to be a Turk´ or  telling them ´if you dont say it you are my enemy´..

 

 There are racists every where, in Turkey as well. There´re racist people in Turkey, no one can deny it, but do not state it as there´s a real racism in Turkey because there´s not.

The intention of this statement is obvious and it´s far from being racist, and the fact that this statement have been being used by racists does not make it a racist statement in its origin. Because The intention was to unite people not to divide.

As I said there´s no pure Turk. I doubt if one can come up with his/her pure turkish genes, because there´s no. So, by being Turk, you understand being a citizen of Turkey, being someone who loves to be a part of this country and its people.

39.      

WarTrain
259 posts
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 08 Oct 2008 Wed 04:28 pm

 

 

Quoting mltm

 There are racists every where, in Turkey as well. There´s racist people in Turkey, no one can deny it, but do not state it as there´s a real racism in Turkey because there´s not.

The intention of this statement is obvious and it´s far from being racist, and the fact that this statement have been using by racists do not make it a racist statement in its origin.

As I said there´s no pure Turk. I doubt if one can come up with his/her pure turkish genes, because there´s no. So, in Turk, you understand being a citizen of Turkey, being someone who loves to be a part of this country and its people.

 

It is easy for you and I to make such romantic statements about "all living together" Meltem because, frankly, we are on the easy side and do not belong to any ethnic minority. 

 

Certainly I would not write such romantic statements about my country as you did about Turkey because I am aware of racism within my country (including our police force).   However, we did not go quite as far as the Turks (i.e. in the past banning their native language and literature) and I am sure you must have Turk/Kurd friends and I am equally sure they do not share quite such a rose-tinted view of being a citizen of Turkey as you do.

40.      

SuiGeneris
3313 posts
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 08 Oct 2008 Wed 04:29 pm

 

 

Quoting thehandsom

when we were living together for centuries, no one was screaming to their faces ´How glorious to be a Turk´ or  telling them ´if you dont say it you are my enemy´..

 

 Because you were the only power in these lands! Thats the problem thehandsom! power! now the other have power! and you have problems! isnt it exact to see?

 

When you have that power, again the rest will have problems!

3.       mltm
3690 posts
 09 Oct 2008 Thu 12:48 am

thehandsom
3042 posts
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 08 Oct 2008 Wed 04:33 pm

 

Quoting mltm

 There are racists every where, in Turkey as well. There´re racist people in Turkey, no one can deny it, but do not state it as there´s a real racism in Turkey because there´s not.

The intention of this statement is obvious and it´s far from being racist, and the fact that this statement have been being used by racists does not make it a racist statement in its origin. Because The intention was to unite people not to divide.

As I said there´s no pure Turk. I doubt if one can come up with his/her pure turkish genes, because there´s no. So, by being Turk, you understand being a citizen of Turkey, being someone who loves to be a part of this country and its people.

 

you know very well it is not entirely true. Definition of Turk is ethnicity.

Apart from Ataturk´s one saying ´Ne mutlu Turk´um diyene´, almost all talks about related to ´being a Turk´ relates to ethnicity not being a citizen of Turkey.

     

mltm
3038 posts

Quote --- Modify

 08 Oct 2008 Wed 04:53 pm

 

 

Quoting thehandsom

you know very well it is not entirely true. Definition of Turk is ethnicity.

Apart from Ataturk´s one saying ´Ne mutlu Turk´um diyene´, almost all talks about related to ´being a Turk´ relates to ethnicity not being a citizen of Turkey.

 

 Which etnicity? As I said there´s no more one pure ethnic turk, but what you hear in your mind is Turk is anything other than Kurd, then what you do becomes kurdish nationalism.

I acknowledge that people should be more freer to live their culture and to talk their language but you cannot say that there is no step taken for this.

 But the major problem that might separate us is "not being willing to be part of this one nation", then at this point there´s nothing Turkish government can do about.

     

thehandsom
3042 posts
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 08 Oct 2008 Wed 05:00 pm

 

 

Quoting mltm

 Which etnicity? As I said there´s no more one pure ethnic turk, but what you hear in your mind is Turk is anything other than Kurd, then what you do becomes kurdish nationalism.

I acknowledge that people should be more freer to live their culture and to talk their language but you cannot say that there is no step taken for this.

 But the major problem that might separate us is "not being willing to be part of this one nation", then at this point there´s nothing Turkish government can do about.

 

I dont think you get the point here..Because of your nationalism kurdish nationalism is at this level right now in Turkey. (Because almost each nationalism defines itself more or less with hatred of ´others´ rather  than ´love for your country´

You say ´steps are taken´, but Mltm, look at the article I quoted up there. Can you say that a person who is thinking that he/she is a kurd can live as free as you are? What if that person does not want to say ´Ne mutlu Turkum diyene´?

what are you going to do with it?
He deserves to live in that country as much as you and I do!!

     

mltm
3038 posts

Quote --- Modify

 08 Oct 2008 Wed 05:28 pm

 

 

Quoting thehandsom

What if that person does not want to say ´Ne mutlu Turkum diyene´?

what are you going to do with it?
He deserves to live in that country as much as you and I do!!

 

 I have not read that article yet, but then the same question goes to you what if you said "ne mutlu Türküm diyene" and became competely equal to any other citizen? What will you lose, what do you have against this? Why do you always insist to pronounce your ethnical origins, in our daily life we have nothing to do with etnics. I´m not ethnically 100% turkish, but I do not feel that I have to be pure turkish to say that I´m a turk because I was born in Turkey, I got education there, I lived there with other turkish people. You are the one who tries to make things hard. In streets everywhere I hear kurdish people talk kurdish so loudly, if that´s what you mean and in their private as well no one bans them anything. However I think your problem is rather with "being a Turk", because you are indeed the one who thinks racistly.

4.       mltm
3690 posts
 09 Oct 2008 Thu 12:48 am














SuiGeneris
3313 posts
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Quote



 08 Oct 2008 Wed 05:28 pm



 



 Quoting Deli_kizin


  


But no, I´d never say ´Ne mutlu Türküm diyene´, because to me, it sort of implies that anyone who claims to be something else, must be mutsuz.



 


To me, it is better to consider the meaning of these sentences, when it is said, and where it is said!


To gather the a society again, these should have been said after a very very heavy war! we talk about 1920s right?


 Its their stupity to get that meaning and provake the people against other people with using this... That is also not true! but that doesnt again make it right to provake the other side



5.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 09 Oct 2008 Thu 01:04 am

When answering this forum, please dont use the quote button inside Meltems copies. It makes your post go to the original forum where it is copied from it just happened to me!

 

So here is my reply to Sui´s last post:

 

 

I agree with that as well. But when using a sentence like that, we do not always quote back at history. We connect it to current ideas that go with it.  And I think that these days, it is more used to say how great the Turkish ethnicity is, rather than to say ´Hey guys, remember that Atatürk meant that we should all be one nation?´.

6.       mltm
3690 posts
 09 Oct 2008 Thu 01:07 am

thehandsom
3042 posts
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 08 Oct 2008 Wed 04:24 pm

 

Mltm for you:

 

The heart of the problem:

  So, here is the summary: In this country, you cannot say “Happy Bayram” in Kurdish. But you can say “cleanse the Kurdish microbes” in Turkish.

  All this, once again, brings us to the heart of our problem: The Turkish Republic exists in order to protect its ideology, not its citizens. The only good citizens are those who fit into the official ideology.

 

Rest is here:

 

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/editorial.php?ed=mustafa_akyol

7.       mltm
3690 posts
 09 Oct 2008 Thu 01:09 am

Sory, some of the posts still look weird, I try to modify them.

8.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 09 Oct 2008 Thu 01:11 am

Meltem:

I have not read that article yet, but then the same question goes to you what if you said "ne mutlu Türküm diyene" and became competely equal to any other citizen? What will you lose, what do you have against this? Why do you always insist to pronounce your ethnical origins, in our daily life we have nothing to do with etnics.

DK:

What will you loose? You will then deny every individual from his right to shape his own identity, to feel comfortable with that. It may be practically easy to say ´just say it and then we are equal´, but that makes the one who makes the other one say it, ´more equal´ because he is the one who takes away the right of an own identity. dentities, and how people perceive them, are generally not things you are born with. They are given by the goverment, for administrational purposes, by environment (culture that you grow up in), .. there are many things that create an identity. But it is every persons right to have an identity that fits him/her and that fits his own ideological goals.

Ethnics is something dangerous, and I believe like you that in our daily life we have little business with our ethnicity. But to deny someone the right to have an identity based upon ethnicity, and then say ´what will you loose, what have you got against it´, is too simple and also ideologically wrong.

9.       libralady
5152 posts
 10 Oct 2008 Fri 04:35 pm

Something very odd has happened to this thread, or am I just being thick?

10.       lady in red
6947 posts
 10 Oct 2008 Fri 04:57 pm

 

Quoting libralady

Something very odd has happened to this thread, or am I just being thick?

 

 Ooooh!!  Very odd  {#lang_emotions_unsure}  Has handsom been spreading his viruses again I wonder  

 

 

(PS - he´d better not be bringing one to Turkey with him - I´ve already got one  {#lang_emotions_sick} 

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