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Politics/ army /democracy
1.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 28 Feb 2009 Sat 09:01 pm

 

This is a bit of history about   28 february 1997-a military intervention in Turkey´s recent history

and how the things were done 10 years ago in Turkish politics..

 

..

According to recording, Karadayi (former head of the army) asked former prime minister Necmettin Erbakan to resign.

[New recording reveals Feb. 28 top general’s role in military takeovers]

 

... The tape recordings of Karadayi indicate that he could soon be arrested as part of the trial into Ergenekon, a clandestine network of illegal structures secretly trying to rule the country from behind the scenes, commented Journalist Mehmet Altan.

 

...that proves "how the Turkish military sees itself as the only owner of the regime and how it acts to protect the state in the ways it sees fit, just like a padisah," or an Ottoman sultan. ....

 

..."padisah" view of the military itself, Altan noted. "As the padisah, they believe they are the rightful owners of the country, so they don´t need any censorship or concealing."

 

However, times are different, Altan added, stating that these voice recordings emerging for the first time might be interpreted as suggesting that Karadayi will soon be behind bars as a suspect for plotting to overthrow civilian and democratically elected governments. ....

....

‘I told the hoca to leave and he left’

 

....They did whatever I told them to. I told the Hoca to leave, and he did. What more could I ask for?...

 

....

He also conveys in the recording that the military made eight demands from the government, ....

 

..

Full article:

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=168182

 

=======================

 

That was how the engine of politics worked 10 years ago in Turkey.

The head of the army would come and say ´go´ to the prime minister and then they would boast ´they saved the democracy once more´

This article shows how the army messes (or used to mess) with politics in Turkey. 

And ´being able to talk about these real things´ is a fantastic achievement from ´Turkey´s journey to full democracy´ point of view..

 

See, I am not so pessimistic all the time


 



Edited (2/28/2009) by thehandsom
Edited (2/28/2009) by thehandsom
Edited (2/28/2009) by thehandsom
Edited (2/28/2009) by thehandsom

2.       catwoman
8933 posts
 28 Feb 2009 Sat 11:24 pm

That is certainly good news. I have some questions though -- do you think that the army ever had it´s righteous purpose for ´monitoring´ the government? Do you think that simply times have changed and the army does more bad then good, and that´s why their influence should decrease..?

3.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 01 Mar 2009 Sun 02:28 am

 

Quoting catwoman

That is certainly good news. I have some questions though -- do you think that the army ever had it´s righteous purpose for ´monitoring´ the government? Do you think that simply times have changed and the army does more bad then good, and that´s why their influence should decrease..?

 

Well it is a good question I must say..

A straight answer from me would be ´the army should not have right to monitor the goverments´ of course...Accepting the armies right to run the countries is accepting the dictatorship and fascism..An army is the group of people who have the weapons in the end. 

 

But, when you look at the army´s current position in Turkey, I think you should have to take account our republic´s history too:

We are a nation built by the soldiers. Ataturk was a soldier himself. Almost all people who held the critical positions and run Turkey during early years were soldiers.

Even last years of Ottoman empire were dominated by the army and power struggle in the army..The soldiers were the rebellious, revolutionists of last decades of Ottomans.

With the decleration of new republic, these army revolutionists did not get retired and took important posts in Turkey.

The army has seen this mandate of monitoring the progress of republic or protecting the republic as their natural given right. 

Ruling position of the armies become almost  history after the WWI in the west for example but  in Turkey the things were slightly different. While there was a demand in modernization in late ottomans, there was not a Turkish middle class..Turkish people were almost villagers who did not have a clue about what was going on..

With some intellects, the army was the only organised power at the time. And ´the creating power always stamps its object´. That was what happened in Turkey.

And with the time, Turkey has produced an elite unelected people including the army and all this time these unelected people run the country with the slogans ´one nation one country´. 

But the things are different of course and we do have a middle class and people want a proper democracy.

That is what this struggle is about. 

4.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 03 Mar 2009 Tue 10:10 am

A column about this topic:

 

Has the era of coups ended in Turkey?

 

...there is still widespread discussion about whether or not Turkey´s democracy still faces the threat of military meddling.

....

The general consensus is that another coup is not possible in Turkey, but that the country must bring the perpetrators of past coups before justice to settle its accounts.

According to Sabah´s Nazli Ilicak, ....She thinks Turkish democracy developed more confidence in itself following the launch of the trial against Ergenekon, a shadowy criminal network with alleged links within the state. ..... "I think the era of coups has ended in Turkey," Ilicak concludes.

 

Nuray Mert, from the Hürriyet daily, .... But she believes this is because of Turkey´s new role in the international arena. Nevertheless, she does not find this picture promising because Turkey has been unable to settle its accounts over the 1997 military intervention, not to mention the others, ...secularists ... So they supported the Feb. 28 intervention. They even provoked the military to stage it. Now they avoid confronting it," Mert explains....that the current government is the product of the Feb. 28 intervention," ..

 

Star´s Mehmet Altan, ... "Prosecutors, where are you? Since staging coups is a constitutional crime in Turkey, what are you waiting for to take action? If you are waiting for some criminal complaints or documents, here is a criminal complaint for you. You do not have to be a brave prosecutor to take action; you being a real prosecutor is sufficient in this case," Altan contends.

 

In full:

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/yazarDetay.do?haberno=168446

 

 

5.       mltm
3690 posts
 03 Mar 2009 Tue 11:50 am

You cannot bring full democracy to a nation in one day or in a couple of years. The democratization of a country is a process. In a european country like Germany, France where there´s full democracy, where you never see military generals on the TVs, at the same time you can see no governments talking about changing the secular system and bringing a religious system. But this party in power at that time did it.

 

And in your opinion bringing a religious system which is no way a democratic system to a country in a democratic way helps the country to be a more democratic country?

6.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 03 Mar 2009 Tue 12:25 pm

 

Quoting mltm

You cannot bring full democracy to a nation in one day or in a couple of years. The democratization of a country is a process. In a european country like Germany, France where there´s full democracy, where you never see military generals on the TVs, at the same time you can see no governments talking about changing the secular system and bringing a religious system. But this party in power at that time did it.

 

And in your opinion bringing a religious system which is no way a democratic system to a country in a democratic way helps the country to be a more democratic country?

 

where did you see me saying that?

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