1st of all thank u sooo much for answering my question & i totally agree with most of u that hijab is a choice even Allah ordered all muslim women to wear but only Allah who judges us nobody has the right to say that a woman is good or bad because of her hijab , islam is not just about hijab  & appearance , islam is so much deeper than this

+100000000000000

Precisely!! Hijab is part of islamic tradition, and if some women feel good about following it, it should be entirely their own choice. However, I disagree with you that Islam does not oppress women. Turkey is very exceptional in the fact that women are free NOT to wear hijab, no other islamic country is that way. And while it is true that it´s not fair that Turkish women can´t wear hijab in government places, if it was up to the religious majority to set the rules, women would be persecuted for making their own choices. And Islam does oppress women, which really translates into "muslim men oppress women", they make all the public laws -- women aren´t allowed to participate in the decision making process, and they (men) decide on what women are supposed to be doing!! As you said -- men should have to stay away from those things.. and if he desires a more pious wife, he can look for one, but he should never feel entitled to judge women for their choices, or worse, demand!

In Islamic terms...telling people that Allah ordered women to wear hijab is total bulshit. The order is to dress in a modest, sensually non-provocative fashion, in such a way that a Moslem woman can not be mistaken for a lady of different religion.

If any idiot interprets "modest and sensually non-provocative" as hijab, and nothing else, so be it. Let her wear it, she deserves to wear hijab all her life.

What is wrong with a woman dressed in sensually provocative fashion? Don´t you think that the fault/sin/problem is in the eye of the beholder? In other words, if you don´t want to be seduced, you cannot be, and if you want to be seduced, you will be seduced by the eye cut-outs in a burka! How about if you leave women and how they dress alone, and mind your own business.

When I have a fat wallet on me, I tend to stay away from dark streets where I may get into trouble. I know this is a violation or in other words a limitation on my personal freedom. I know there is law and order but like a famous old Tracy Chapman song goes,".. the police always come late, if they come at all." I have learned the hard way that it is wrong to assume that this world is an ideal place, we humans are not, to start with.  Whatever we may be objecting or standing by, there are the seeds of corruption, indecency and therefore a potential to limit others´ freedoms in all of us. Those of us believed to be completely the other way around are depicted on the walls of churches with halos above their heads...

There is a Ukrainian feminist group appearing in news these days. They seem to take every opportunity to get rid of their clothes to protest attempts to violate their freedoms. In the end, they use their bodies to draw public attention. They use the ever lasting appetite in men for the female figure. Without a doubt, many women do use their bodies to get silly men to do whatever they want them to do.

If there should be resolution about this, there must first of all be some sort of consistency. If one defends that women must have complete authority over what to wear, this must also include hijab no matter how repulsive the idea may sound to some of us.

I don´t associate with people who wear hijab. Her hijab is a clear cut indication of the fact that we cannot see eye to eye in many things. Still, it is her life, her decision and she is not very different from those Ukrainian feminists in this regard.

If left on their own, devout Moslems would never be influenced by sensually provacative fashion.

But you forget the element of Satan...who finds immense pleasure in leading Moslems astray. The ban on provacative dressing is only a protective safety measure against this eventuality. So long as proper prayers are practiced and Satan is kept out of the families´s private premises, the lady of the house is free to be as seductive and as provacative as she can manage. NO PROBLEM !

So Turkish men are like all other muslim men, who believe their women should do what the men ask of them, and Turkish women HAVE to do as their men please? Why does no one ask the women what they want?

Turkish men, like men of other nationalities are varied. Some are very dominating and some are very egalitarian. In more general terms, since Turkish culture is more open the other islamic cultures, Turkish men are also more open, but in comarison with western cultures, they rank more patriarchal.

I understand your point Vineyards, and I agree with you. However, I think that we should not make the mistake of putting the blame on women, but we should locate the problem where it belongs, don´t you think? You should avoid certain dark alleys, but you should not say that it´s your fault when you get attacked -- the problem is still the dark alley, not you.

For some reason, it´s still hard to get across the concept that it´s not women´s appearance that is the problem, but men´s behavior!

The problem is those dark alleys will always exist. In my way of thinking both evil and good develop equally. The better you think the world is getting, the worse certain aspects of it will become. This point of view has been advocated by dialectical materialism and has its roots in Socrates and even earlier in zoroastrianism.

Zoroaster intruduced a celestial God with two spirits good and bad. Believers would have to choose one of them. He professed, there would be an eternal fight between these which has been proven thus far. Socrates believed life is a transition into more sophisticated forms perpetually. Hegel introduced thesis, antithesis and synthesis. Marx combined Hegel´s thought about dialectic process with Feuerbach´s materialism to create dialectic materialism.

I tend to share the thoughts developed in this circle. Things indeed get more sophisticated by time but evil aspects of human and society follow the same track too. 

The common aspect of all these philosophers was the fact that they opened up a frontier against the idealist or romantic thinking that allows completely disregarding certain intrinsic aspects of a subject (in this case human) and replace them with principles, ethic codes etc which can only exist in an ideal world.

I believe those dark alleys will always exist and they will probably be even more threatening. You had better hold on to your wallet. Keep an eye on your children and beloved ones. Unless we can find a formula to distibute wealth equally, we can expect much improvement in any of the social parameters.

Did you know that the biggest harm Hagia Sophia ever endured was done by the Christian crusaders who set out on a holy quest only to turn into pillagers astounded by the riches of the Byzantium.

True, the problem was not the richness of the city. True, poverty and hunger have always been the main culprit but tell me have we ever been able to solve this problem? In the world, affluence is invariably rare and preferential. A lot of other crimes are connected with lack deprivation too. 

P.S. I have no problems with sensually provocative women. There is indeed a shortage of them...

I don´t think it´s the way women dress that provokes men into sexual offence. I´d put the blame on the penal system. While some say it´s the burkas and niquabs that account for low rate of rape in Muslim countries compared to awfuly high rate in the west, I think it´s the possible punishment that puts men off. Also, if you´re living in the culture that puts the blame on women, you´re not likely to report rape if it happens to you.