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Turkey, Russia to lift visa requirement
(34 Messages in 4 pages - View all)
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20.       lemon
1374 posts
 12 May 2010 Wed 09:08 am

 

Quoting vineyards

Greece has recently become the black sheep of the EU. That is a shame. By the look of the things, the EU is an organization run by myriad of rules and regulations. Accession is difficult and time taking. One would expect, no country stands a chance to enter before achieving full compliance. For example, Turkey has been left outside of the organization since she has not been able to achieve full compliance.

 

The EU members said good bye to their national currencies, adopted Euro and began trading as chartered by the EU decision makers. This scheme did not work in Greece. Life has become more expensive and the people began moaning about the EU. Germany is not doing well either. Inflation has revisited Europe after so many decades.

 

I don´t know what kind of a union this is. Everyone is pointing their fingers at Greece. It seems, soon there will be other victims of the economic crisis. If nations don´t help each other in the hour of need what is the point of being in a union?

 

Loved your post!

21.       lemon
1374 posts
 12 May 2010 Wed 09:09 am

 

Quoting Daydreamer

It´s hardly a surprise Turkey is looking for allies that are going to treat it seriously and on real partnership terms. Turkey has the right to feel deceived by the EU and USA, which seem to tempt, promise demand and don´t give much in return. Quite a logical step to take is to find somebody that´s more likely to keep a healthy balance.

 

Well, the history of my country has taught me that Russia is not really fond of partnership, but...things change and so do state policies.

 

I hope Turkish economy will benefit from visa-free flow of people

 

Thank you, good post!

22.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 12 May 2010 Wed 06:41 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

 

I don´t know what kind of a union this is. Everyone is pointing their fingers at Greece. It seems, soon there will be other victims of the economic crisis. If nations don´t help each other in the hour of need what is the point of being in a union?

 

 I have to stop you there. The other countries ARE stepping up to help Greece. They have promised billions of euro´s to help Greece. This ticks the people in these "save your behind" countries off. Why? Because the only reason why "we" (my tax-euro´s are also going to go to Greece) have to save Greece is because their old government didn´t follow the basic rules of being in the euro, and thus had a crazy economic system. If Greece would have made the real tax numbers, income and outcome numbers public, even a high school economics, level 1 student could have forseen a big economic crisis in the future. This crisis in Greece is not something that is only due to the world wide financial crisis. This is because of the state´s miss-management. Greece lied, spend WAY more then they were actually making, and now we have to help them. It feels like we´ve been cheated on {#emotions_dlg.get_you}

 

It´s like having a poor brother. The kind of brother who borrows money everywhere, but doesn´t have a good job to pay that money back. As the rich brother, you have to help him. You´re his brother after all. So, you pay his debt. But you make strict rules about how you give this money, because you don´t want your brother to mess up again. How do you make sure the poor brother doesn´t lie in the future again, just because he knows his rich brother will save him again?

 

Anyway, let´s talk about Russia, since I don´t see many arguments FOR Russia, except for "Russia is not the EU or US."

23.       scalpel
1472 posts
 12 May 2010 Wed 11:43 pm

 

Quoting barba_mama

 

 

 I have to stop you there. The other countries ARE stepping up to help Greece. They have promised billions of euro´s to help Greece. This ticks the people in these "save your behind" countries off. Why? Because the only reason why "we" (my tax-euro´s are also going to go to Greece) have to save Greece is because their old government didn´t follow the basic rules of being in the euro, and thus had a crazy economic system. If Greece would have made the real tax numbers, income and outcome numbers public, even a high school economics, level 1 student could have forseen a big economic crisis in the future. This crisis in Greece is not something that is only due to the world wide financial crisis. This is because of the state´s miss-management. Greece lied, spend WAY more then they were actually making, and now we have to help them. It feels like we´ve been cheated on {#emotions_dlg.get_you}

 

It´s like having a poor brother. The kind of brother who borrows money everywhere, but doesn´t have a good job to pay that money back. As the rich brother, you have to help him. You´re his brother after all. So, you pay his debt. But you make strict rules about how you give this money, because you don´t want your brother to mess up again. How do you make sure the poor brother doesn´t lie in the future again, just because he knows his rich brother will save him again?

 

Anyway, let´s talk about Russia, since I don´t see many arguments FOR Russia, except for "Russia is not the EU or US."

 

 +1 I can´t believe I agree with you but well said.

24.       lemon
1374 posts
 13 May 2010 Thu 08:51 am

My arguments for Russia, for example be:

 

* stability by all means

* cheaper oil

* military stability

* good relationships with Russia means good relationships with other many countries in east.

* possibility to stand up for the western expansion

* means EU is not necessary

* Russia doesnt require much unlike EU

*etc

25.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 13 May 2010 Thu 10:37 am

"Stability by all means" is questionable. There are some strange things happening in Russia, and the stability in government might just be a stability of fear. Critical journalists who die under strange circumstances or disappear in thin air... it´s not a good thing. And there are some problems with certain regions of Russia, including terrorism.

 

The oil thing is true though. I never uderstood why petrol and other oil products are so expensive in Turkey while they are so close to the source!

 

I any case it´s good to have good ties with your neighbors.

26.       lemon
1374 posts
 13 May 2010 Thu 12:20 pm

 

Quoting barba_mama

"Stability by all means" is questionable. There are some strange things happening in Russia, and the stability in government might just be a stability of fear. Critical journalists who die under strange circumstances or disappear in thin air... it´s not a good thing. And there are some problems with certain regions of Russia, including terrorism.

 

The oil thing is true though. I never uderstood why petrol and other oil products are so expensive in Turkey while they are so close to the source!

 

I any case it´s good to have good ties with your neighbors.

 

With a territory so vast and ethnicities so diverse Russia has enough stability for its region.

There are lots of negative things to talk about Russia. I would be the first to throw a stone.

 

Unlike former Soviet republics Turkey is way stronger to be partners on equal terms. For the moment Russia is seeking political allies. It has come to certain agreements with Iran. I am 100% sure that Russia is gaining gradually its power back. It has learnt and changed its external politics. It wants to obtain the world wide acceptance not by terror as it used to practice but by economic dependance (oil for loaylty).

27.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 13 May 2010 Thu 01:25 pm

True, Turkey would be a more stable partner for Russia then any former Soviet Union. But let´s say, Turkey gets oil from Russia. What will Russia get from Turkey?

28.       lemon
1374 posts
 13 May 2010 Thu 02:45 pm

 

Quoting barba_mama

True, Turkey would be a more stable partner for Russia then any former Soviet Union. But let´s say, Turkey gets oil from Russia. What will Russia get from Turkey?

 

Hmmm.... I wrote in my previous post: Oil for loyalty. Germany is an example.

 

Russia does not need a thing but a political ally. Russia has been watching Turkey´s unsuccessful attempt to join EU and just made a move in time. Maybe?

Russia will soon break Ukraine, Georgia who have joined NATO and attempting to join EU. Both countries understood that EU  or the West has nothing to give except the slogans about freedom and democracy. Slogans will not make your stomach full and will not warm you up in the harsh winters.

I think Eastern Europe should come out of EU. What did EU give to Poland? It gave migration only.

29.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 13 May 2010 Thu 06:40 pm

Just migration is actually a lot. I see a lot of Polish workers here, who have a job here, save money, and use it back home to build something for themselves. But yeah, politics, it´s like pre-school Everybody wants to have a buddy to play with and stick up for them on the playground. "If you are my friend, you have to help me when people bully me, but I will give you a lollipop!" Some things never change

30.       lemon
1374 posts
 13 May 2010 Thu 07:11 pm

 

Quoting barba_mama

Just migration is actually a lot. I see a lot of Polish workers here, who have a job here, save money, and use it back home to build something for themselves. But yeah, politics, it´s like pre-school Everybody wants to have a buddy to play with and stick up for them on the playground. "If you are my friend, you have to help me when people bully me, but I will give you a lollipop!" Some things never change

 

Such a delusion!

 

As for Russia. All I know from the history is that nothing good came out of union with Russia. But who knows?

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