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Relief ship stopped by Israeli Navy
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50.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 08 Jun 2010 Tue 12:10 pm

 

Quoting barba_mama

I´m not going on the next boat since I have some problems with the orgaizations which provides the financial support for this. They had close contact with the top of Hamas.  I understand that they did this, because Hamas is in power in Gaza, and that way they can perhaps  know better what is needed, and make sure that the aid goes to the right places. But in any case, I can´t be part of any organization that has this kind of contact with Hamas. (In all honesty, ofcourse this is not the only reason why I will not hop on the next boat )

 

I think nobody on earth with sensible views can defend what Israel is doing to the Palestinians. Israel is trying to use anti semitizm as a weapon by calling all their critics as anti semite. Alas so far..

But there is one more thing, there is a pact in the Middle East against Israel.. In this pact, in this alliance, there are many who dont want to Israel to live at all!! They want to scrape Israel from the Middle east!!

I think almost in my entire life I have never seen any cause "more right" than  cause of Palestinians..

I have always supported Arafat/Habash/PLO with all my heart.

I even support Hamas/Hezbullah -in Lebanon-.

But in order to achive a peace in the Middle East, people should agree ´the right of Israel´s existance´ there too..

Ok.. It has been a great injustice since the beining of Israel..But in the end, there has to be a solution there and that solution must include ´everybody´s right to exist!!´

 

Now, coming to the incident.. Of course it was barbaric.. Of course, apart from afew ultra right wing Israelis, no body on earth can support those killings  or attacking a ship in international waters..Who do Isrealies think they are?

 

But,  I have been hearing that there were people on those ships, who went there to fight the greatest enemy of Islam!! They went there to become shahid- martyrs!!

Well, Isreal is using anti Semitism as a propaganda to silence her critics. They are almost paranoid about this..We all know that..

But if those ships were full of people  whom ´went there to become martyrs´, can you turn around and say that Israel´s paranoia was  an empty paranoia entirely? what was the percentage of anti semite people in those ships?

When people protest in front of the consulates, they are shouting ´allahu ekber´ or reciting verses from Quran.. When doing that, are those people not pulling the entire protest into a war between religions?

I think we should be quite careful with what we want and do not sideline ourselves with anti-semitism .

51.       juliacernat
424 posts
 08 Jun 2010 Tue 03:45 pm

Robert Fisk: The truth behind the Israeli propaganda


 


 


"I have, of course, been outraged at armed men boarding ships in international waters, killing passengers on board who attempt to resist and then forcing their ship to the hijackers´ home port. I am, of course, talking about the Somali pirates who are preying on Western ships in the Indian Ocean. How dare those terrorists dare to touch our unarmed vessels on the high seas? And how right we are to have our warships there to prevent such terrorist acts.


 


But whoops! At least the Israelis have not demanded ransom. They just want to get journalists to win the propaganda war for them. Scarcely had the week begun when Israel´s warrior "commandos" stormed a Turkish boat bringing aid to Gaza and shot nine of the passengers dead. Yet by week´s end, the protesters had become "armed peace activists", vicious anti-Semites "professing pacifism, seething with hate, pounding away at another human being with a metal pole". I liked the last bit. The fact that the person being beaten was apparently shooting another human being with a rifle didn´t quite get into this weird version of reality.


Turkish family protests that their sons wanted to be martyrs – something which most Turkish family members might say if their relatives had been shot by the Israelis – had been transformed into confirmation that they had been jihadis. "On that aid ship," a Sri Lankan texted me this week, "I had my niece, nephew and his wife on board. Unfortunately Ahmed (20-year-old nephew) got shot in the leg and now treated (sic) under military custody. I will keep you posted." He did indeed. Within hours, the press was at his family´s home in Australia, demanding to know if Ahmed was a jihadi – or even a potential suicide bomber. Propaganda works, you see. We haven´t seen a frame of film from the protesters because the Israelis have stolen the lot. No one has told us – if the Turkish ship was carrying such ruthless men – how their terrible plots to help the "terrorists" of Gaza were not uncovered in the long voyage from Turkey, even when it called at other ports. But Professor Gil Troy of McGill University in Montreal – in the rabid Canadian National Post, of course – was able to spout all that gunk about "armed peace activists" on Thursday.


 


I wasn´t personally at all surprised at the killings on the Turkish ship. In Lebanon, I´ve seen this indisciplined rabble of an army – as "elite" as the average rabble of Arab armies – shooting at civilians. I saw them watching the Sabra and Shatila massacre of Palestinians on the morning of 18 September (the last day of the slaughter) by their vicious Lebanese militia allies. I was present at the Qana massacre by Israeli gunners in 1996 – "Arabushim" (the equivalent of the abusive term "Ayrab" in English), one of the gunners called the 106 dead civilians, more than half of them children, in the Israeli press. Then the Israeli government of Nobel laureate Shimon Peres said there were terrorists among the dead civilians – totally untrue, but who cares? – and then came the second Qana massacre in 2006 and then the 2008-09 Gaza slaughter of 1,300 Palestinians, most of them children, and then...


Well, then came the Goldstone report, which found that Israeli troops (as well as Hamas) committed war crimes in Gaza, but this was condemned as anti-Semitic – poor old honourable Goldstone, himself a prominent Jewish jurist from South Africa, slandered as "an evil man" by the raving Al Dershowitz of Harvard – and was called "controversial" by the brave Obama administration. "Controversial", by the way, basically means "fuck you".


There´s doubts about it, you see. It´s dodgy stuff.


But back to our chronology. Then we had the Mossad murder of a Hamas official in Dubai with the Israelis using at least 19 forged passports from Britain and other countries. And the pathetic response of our then foreign secretary, David Miliband? He called it "an incident" – not the murder of the guy in Dubai, mind you, just the forgery of UK passports, a highly "controversial" matter – and then... Well, now we´ve had the shooting down of nine passengers at sea by more Israeli heroes.


The amazing thing in all this is that so many Western journalists – and I´m including the BBC´s pusillanimous coverage of the Gaza aid ships – are writing like Israeli journalists, while many Israeli journalists are writing about the killings with the courage that Western journalists should demonstrate. And about the Israeli army itself. Take Amos Harel´s devastating report in Haaretz which analyses the make-up of the Israeli army´s officer corps. In the past, many of them came from the leftist kibbutzim tradition, from greater Tel Aviv or from the coastal plain of Sharon. In 1990, only 2 per cent of army cadets were religious Orthodox Jews. Today the figure is 30 per cent. Six of the seven lieutenant-colonels in the Golani Brigade are religious. More than 50 per cent of local commanders are "national" religious in some infantry brigades.


There´s nothing wrong with being religious. But – although Harel does not make this point quite so strongly – many of the Orthodox are supporters of the colonisation of the West Bank and thus oppose a Palestinian state.


And the Orthodox colonists are the Israelis who most hate the Palestinians, who want to erase the chances of a Palestinian state as surely as some Hamas officials would like to erase Israel. Ironically, it was senior officers of the "old" Israeli army who first encouraged the "terrorist" Hamas to build mosques in Gaza – as a counterbalance to the "terrorist" Yasser Arafat up in Beirut – and I was a witness to one of their meetings. But it will stay the same old story before the world wakes up. "I have never known an army as democratic as Israel´s," the hapless French philosopher Bernard-Henri Lévy said a few hours before the slaughter.


Yes, the Israeli army is second to none, elite, humanitarian, heroic. Just don´t tell the Somali pirates".


 


http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-the-truth-behind-the-israeli-propaganda-1991803.html


 


 


 

alameda liked this message
52.       juliacernat
424 posts
 08 Jun 2010 Tue 03:48 pm

Queen Rania of Jordan: Hardliners are now the face of Israel

 

"What do chocolate, cookies, A4 paper, potato chips, cumin, toys, jelly, nuts, dried fruit, nutmeg, and goats have in common? It´s a tricky one. If you´re a moderate, they have nothing in common. But if you are a hard-line Israeli politician, they are all potentially dangerous goods that could threaten Israel´s security. It seems that side of the political spectrum has won the argument, as all the above are items that the Israeli government has prohibited from entering Gaza.

 

It´s understandable. I mean, you can inflict a lot of damage on your oppressors with a chocolate biscuit. And those paper cuts, boy, they can really hurt. But I don´t want to over-dramatize the situation, because it´s not all doom and gloom down in Gaza. Many items are allowed in: mops, sponges for washing, egg cartons, glass cleaner, hair combs, plastic chicken cages, and lentils, for example. So what exactly are the 1.5 million Gazan people complaining about? What could possibly have been on the Freedom Flotilla that Israeli commandos attacked early last Sunday morning in international waters, in yet another assault that has appalled our global community?

 

By most accounts, on the flotilla were 10,000 tonnes of, not guns, but vital humanitarian aid. The people of Gaza desperately need it to survive the 1,000 days of illegal blockade which has crippled Gaza and reduced it to a barely functioning, open-air prison. This is aid like cement to rebuild homes, which have lain in rubble and ruin since the monstrous attacks on Gaza last year; school supplies; and medical equipment, like water purification tablets and wheelchairs.

 

The attack stunned the world because of its blatant and absurd disregard for anything resembling international law, human rights, and diplomatic norms. Its glaring outrageousness stunned, but didn´t surprise, me. It cannot be viewed in isolation. It is another upshot of a dogma long fermenting on Israel´s political landscape.

 

It is a doctrine that lives for itself and off others. It survives by tapping into the subliminal and cognisant levels. It implants into public consciousness a set of tenets that see Israeli´s very existence as eternally under threat, to be defended through any means (preferably through use of force to show the enemy who´s boss). It is best served through the adoption of an "us against the world" mentality. By its very nature, hardline ideology is self-serving and self-perpetuating. Its primary goal is to survive – and that precludes everything. If to exist it must redefine what is acceptable, redraw the lines of international law, and re-imagine what weapons are appropriate – so be it. Assigning themselves authority and immunity, Israel´s leaders feel licensed to do whatever they like and not expect an international outcry.

But this hardened path is fraught with dangers for all of us. These radical policies debar Palestinian value and, by extension, human value. Harsh measures then become more palatable. Inflicting violence upon an innocent majority to punish the guilty few now seems necessary. Every day the blockade continues is another day our humanity remains under siege.

The effect is a people trapped between a rock and a hardline policy. The product is desperation; the reaction, more hardline policies, attempting to defend previous hardline policies. After all, did this outrageous attack take place to preserve Israel´s security, or to sustain the blockade itself?

What is most frustrating is Israel´s defence of its actions. By attacking criticism as part of an anti-Israel, anti-Semitic propaganda war, Israel, yet again, fails to understand that the problem is policy, not PR. Now and always, hardline policy and those who embrace it are vessels for darker forces that are at once self-cannibalising and combustible. No good can come of them. They are unsustainable because their sense of righteousness denies human worth. Apart from other hardliners on all sides who now have been gifted the fuel to invigorate their fanaticism and circulate it far and wide, everyone else loses out. The people of Gaza lose out: 80 per cent of them live below the poverty line. The children of Gaza lose out: one third of their schools, destroyed during the attack on Gaza last year, still haven´t been rebuilt. The newborns of Gaza lose out: 95% of Gaza´s nitrate-full water fails the World Health Organization´s standards, leaving thousands of babies at risk of poisoning.

The people of Israel lose out: rejected by a third of the countries in the United Nations, shunned by much of the global community, ordinary Israelis find themselves persona non grata outside their "borders". Living defensively isn´t a way of life; people only thrive on secure foundations. Is the Israeli government really prepared to condemn its own people to the shaky foundations of rule-by-fear, and its consequences?

Israel´s leadership needs to ask itself some tough questions. "Is our long term strategy to rule by fear? Is our long term outlook for the Israeli people one of constant defence? Are these horizons of hopelessness what we want for our people?". And moderates around the world lose out: people like me, who dared to believe that the road to peace doesn´t have to be a lonely and desolate one. That a two-state solution is not the figment of a naïve idealist´s imagination. And those whose ethical responsibility it is now to deal with the science of reality, to form a coalition of humans that question and confront the assumptions of those on their far right, and to reaffirm the ethos of moderation. After all, isn´t moderation where most of the living is done?

Speaking as a moderate, I fear if the tides don´t turn in our region, moderation will be amongst the most painful casualties of continued aggression and hardline policies. As someone who lived through the late King Hussein´s fight for peace, until his very last breath, and watches his son, my husband, King Abdullah, continue that fight, it actually breaks my heart to see us moving further and further away from peace.

Peace. People. Moderation. I would have thought that those were too heavy a price to pay for sustaining a hardened stance. So, when flotillas came to break the blockade, they came to help the people of Gaza. But, just as important, they came to break the blockade on the Israeli mind".

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/queen-rania-of-jordan-hardliners-are-now-the-face-of-israel-1993157.html

53.       alameda
3499 posts
 08 Jun 2010 Tue 09:58 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

................ It has been a great injustice since the beining of Israel..But in the end, there has to be a solution there and that solution must include ´everybody´s right to exist!!´

 

But,  I have been hearing that there were people on those ships, who went there to fight the greatest enemy of Islam!! They went there to become shahid- martyrs!!

Well, Isreal is using anti Semitism as a propaganda to silence her critics. They are almost paranoid about this..We all know that..

But if those ships were full of people  whom ´went there to become martyrs´, can you turn around and say that Israel´s paranoia was  an empty paranoia entirely? what was the percentage of anti semite people in those ships?

When people protest in front of the consulates, they are shouting ´allahu ekber´ or reciting verses from Quran.. When doing that, are those people not pulling the entire protest into a war between religions?

I think we should be quite careful with what we want and do not sideline ourselves with anti-semitism .

 

 

You are aware of the fact that the Likud party platform does not allow for any Palestinian state?

 

"Self-Rule. The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan River. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel´s existence, security and national needs."

 

You actually think shouting "Allah Akbar" is antisemetic? Someone saying Allah Akbar scares you? Hearing recitations of the Quran scares you? What do you think the very idea of Eretz Israel is about? Then there are the Christian Zionists....

 

You talk about marters....Rachel Corrie was one, as was Emily Henochowicz, the girl who recently lost her eye....I don´t think they set out to be martyrs.  Rather, they were standing up for their ideals.  Most can only talk the talk, they can´t walk the walk.  I admire Rachel and Emily. I think it´s called moral fortitude...some have it, most don´t. 



Edited (6/8/2010) by alameda [add link]

54.       metehan2001
501 posts
 09 Jun 2010 Wed 02:03 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

But,  I have been hearing that there were people on those ships, who went there to fight the greatest enemy of Islam!!

(..........)

what was the percentage of anti semite people in those ships?

(..........)

I think we should be quite careful with what we want and do not sideline ourselves with anti-semitism .

 

 

 

thehandsom, I think, you need to see a psychiatrist periodically. You, just tell him your problem as: "Whenever people call something "white" I can´t stand and call it "black"? What is the problem with me, doctor?"


This is not the question of anti-semitism. Some people want to convey urgent needs to the people who deadly needs those things, and then, suddenly, the merciless soldiers appear and attack on the civilians and kill some of them. All the civilians could be Christians, Hindus or Muslims; their religion didn´t matter for the  soldiers. They attacked, killed and injured the civilians. This is called "cruelty" and we can not stand alongside of the cruels.

 

 



Edited (6/9/2010) by metehan2001
Edited (6/9/2010) by metehan2001

55.       scalpel
1472 posts
 09 Jun 2010 Wed 03:52 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

 

But in order to achive a peace in the Middle East, people should agree ´the right of Israel´s existance´ there too..

 

 

 

 

 That´s right. If Arabs accept Isralel´s existance, if Israel goes back to 1967 borders, the peace will come to the region.  

 

Meanwhile I should say that Turkey is just trying to come into something of a regional power among its muslim neighborgs -instead of being the poor beggar in Europe´s backyard, and AKP´s current foreign policy in the Middle East is nothing but adding fuel to the fire and intentionally trying to provoke the sides... 

56.       oeince
582 posts
 11 Jun 2010 Fri 07:24 pm

ISRAEL IS TERRORIST! ISRAEL IS PIRATE! ISRAEL IS OCCUPANT! ISRAEL IS KILLER!

 

New Videos of Mavi Marmara

 

http://www.culturesofresistance.org/gaza-freedom-flotilla

57.       alameda
3499 posts
 12 Jun 2010 Sat 06:10 am

Talk about poor taste!

Israel apologises for spoof video mocking Gaza flotilla

The video parodies the 1985 charity single We Are the World


The Israeli government has apologised after its press office emailed to journalists a spoof video about the flotilla which tried to dock in Gaza.

The video shows people dressed as peace activists singing "we con the world" to the tune of We Are the World.

A spokesman said the video did not represent the Israeli government´s view.

The video contains real footage of the Israeli raid on the flotilla in which nine activists died.

´Bluff´

In the clip, which parodies the video made for the 1985 charity song, the singers are dressed up in costumes representing the captain of the flotilla, western peace activists, and Arabs wearing keffiyeh scarves.

"There´s no people dying, so the best that we can do, is create the greatest bluff of all", they sing.


 I thought it was funny. It is what Israelis feel, but the government has nothing to do with it

Mark Regev Israeli government spokesman

"We are peaceful travellers, we´re waving our own knives," the song goes.

The song builds to a chorus of "we con the world, we con the people. We´ll make them all believe the IDF (Israel Defense Forces) is Jack the Ripper."

58.       Paramedic
24 posts
 12 Jun 2010 Sat 05:28 pm

another example of poor taste is usa involvement with israel

 

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/usaid.html

 

 

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=34996&Cr=Gaza&Cr1=



Edited (6/12/2010) by Paramedic

59.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 13 Jun 2010 Sun 12:30 am

Well this will be a bit poor taste and inappropriate too:

 

Israeli Students to Send Flotilla to Aid Turkey’s Oppressed Kurds, Armenians

TEL AVIV (A.W.) Israeli students are planning a ´peace flotilla´ to Turkey with humanitarian aid for two nations that have suffered under Turkish imperialism´Kurds and Armenians. The initiative comes in response to the world’s sharp criticism of Israel’s lethal raid on the Gaza flotilla, which left nine activists dead and many wounded, reported ynetnews.com.

The organizers are currently seeking a suitable vessel and are trying to recruit other students to the cause. No date has yet been set, but a skipper has been found: Arik Ofir, a member of the navy veteran’s union and owner of a private business. They have also obtained medical supplies, and hope that by the end of the week they will be able to set out.

....

 

http://asbarez.com/81764/israeli-students-to-send-fl...-oppressed-kurds-armenians/

 

 

60.       metehan2001
501 posts
 13 Jun 2010 Sun 12:50 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

Well this will be a bit poor taste and inappropriate too:

 

Israeli Students to Send Flotilla to Aid Turkey’s Oppressed Kurds, Armenians

 

 

 

 Well, your close friends are coming from Israel, maybe you welcome and guide them. They will be needed experienced guides when they reach their destinations.

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