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All about Bible, Jesus, Christianity - you are all invited!
(14 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
[1] 2
1.       gezegen
269 posts
 10 Jun 2010 Thu 12:07 pm

Having recently read so many posts (especailly by lemon) about Bible and Jesus under a few different threads, I thought it would be easier to follow the discussions under the same thread. I will also participate with my very limited knowledge in this field.

 

Okay, let me now be the first taking the step: Once I heard that The Bible wasn´t written by Jesus himself, but by his 12 beloved friends. Is this true (lemon {#emotions_dlg.bigsmile} ) ?

2.       lemon
1374 posts
 10 Jun 2010 Thu 12:18 pm

Gezegen, my dear friend, mate, my dear clown. There´s no need to start a thread. I have one thread, and that is enough. Come and discuss there. Ask admins to delete this thread.

 

xxx Lemon xxx Forever

3.       gezegen
269 posts
 10 Jun 2010 Thu 12:23 pm

No, million times no! You are too dangerous in your territory there. I am quite comfortable here, thanks! {#emotions_dlg.bigsmile}

 

So, tell me, is that true? {#emotions_dlg.bigsmile}

barba_mama liked this message
4.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 10 Jun 2010 Thu 10:33 pm

Lemon is an expert in that matter but since she´s not willing to participate, I shall do so. I might be mistaken but I think Bible was actually written by guys who hadn´t actually known Jesus lol

5.       gezegen
269 posts
 11 Jun 2010 Fri 01:24 am

 

Quoting Daydreamer

I think Bible was actually written by guys who hadn´t actually known Jesus lol

 

{#emotions_dlg.bigsmile} Hmm!... This might be in accordance with the fact that one of the 12 had raped a girl near Antalya, one traited Jesus and still other one was an alcoholic. Then the great job must have done by the remained 9. Now the question is, how?

 

lemon - any sermon about how? {#emotions_dlg.bigsmile}

6.       lemon
1374 posts
 11 Jun 2010 Fri 12:01 pm

 

Quoting gezegen

Having recently read so many posts (especailly by lemon) about Bible and Jesus under a few different threads, I thought it would be easier to follow the discussions under the same thread. I will also participate with my very limited knowledge in this field.

 

Okay, let me now be the first taking the step: Once I heard that The Bible wasn´t written by Jesus himself, but by his 12 beloved friends. Is this true (lemon {#emotions_dlg.bigsmile} ) ?

 

OK. I wanted to avoid this thread in order to keep one thread instead of multiplication of it like a cancer.

Is your question serious? Or are you asking it just to have fun?

 

As for Bible, You should know that Bible consists of two volumes: Old (Torah) and New Testament.

As for New Testament. Its easy, you dont have to be an expert. Each letter has its own author. E.g. the gospel of Mathew (the former tax collector personally called by Jesus) is one of the 12 disciples (or apostles).

Gospel of Mark - another disciple of Christ, but not one of the 12. He was in an outer circle, but still close to Jesus.

Gospel of Luke - joined disciples after resurection.

Gospel of John - one of the 12, the beloved disciple of Christ, lived longer than all the 12 apostles.

 

Enough?

7.       gezegen
269 posts
 11 Jun 2010 Fri 04:05 pm

 

Quoting lemon

As for Bible, You should know that Bible consists of two volumes: Old (Torah) and New Testament.

 

Lets wait here for a moment: I know there are two testaments. Are these two in the same volume/book? Or the old one is what the Jews believe in and what the Christians claim corrupted/distorted? 

 

Quoting lemon

Gospel of Mark - another disciple of Christ, but not one of the 12. He was in an outer circle, but still close to Jesus.

 

This, for example, I have never heard of. Strange.

 

Quoting lemon

the gospel of Mathew (the former tax collector personally called by Jesus) is one of the 12 disciples (or apostles).

Gospel of Mark - another disciple of Christ, but not one of the 12. He was in an outer circle, but still close to Jesus.

Gospel of Luke - joined disciples after resurection.

Gospel of John - one of the 12, the beloved disciple of Christ, lived longer than all the 12 apostles.

 

Enough?

 

What about the remained 9 (or 8 or 5) disciples? Any contribution from them to/for the Bible?

 

 

8.       armegon
1872 posts
 11 Jun 2010 Fri 04:57 pm

It is not that easy actually many blur points. New testament consists of letters of Paul who is i think the real prophet of Christian religion. The interesting thing is; Paul had never seen Jesus of Nazareth in his life, in fact at first he was a big enemy of Nazarenes who were the real followers of Jesus, but on his way to punish Nazarenes, something happened near Damascus and he declared himself as the follower of Jesus. But the Jesus he was telling, was different than the Nazarene people that they knew, so he had arguments with these people which is clear in his letters. The other interesting thing is; apostles and Jesus himself were talking the language of Aramaic like the Jews but the Gospels were written in Grek nearly 70 years after the Jesus´s dead. Furthermore there is no sign or evidence that these Gospels were written by for instance Mark, it does not say " I am apostle Mark/Matthew/Luke, and writing these" however in letters of Paul, Paul greets people declaring himself as a messenger who spreading the gospels from God. So it can be said the new testament which are actually the biography of Jesus filtered by the thinking of Paul which is the basis of christianity and the faith only depends on the Jesus´s suffer on cross. The writings which oppoesed to these declared heretic by Church.

 

Quoting lemon

As for New Testament. Its easy, you dont have to be an expert. Each letter has its own author. E.g. the gospel of Mathew (the former tax collector personally called by Jesus) is one of the 12 disciples (or apostles).

Gospel of Mark - another disciple of Christ, but not one of the 12. He was in an outer circle, but still close to Jesus.

Gospel of Luke - joined disciples after resurection.

Gospel of John - one of the 12, the beloved disciple of Christ, lived longer than all the 12 apostles.

 

Enough?

 

 

9.       lemon
1374 posts
 11 Jun 2010 Fri 06:00 pm

 

Quoting gezegen

 

 

Lets wait here for a moment: I know there are two testaments. Are these two in the same volume/book? Or the old one is what the Jews believe in and what the Christians claim corrupted/distorted? 

Gezegen, Old Testament is the Torah.

Christians believe and accept both Old and New Testaments thus it became Bible/Sriptures.Christians never said that the OT was corrupt or distorted. Where did you get this idea?

Jews dont of course accept NT.

 

 

 

This, for example, I have never heard of. Strange.

Well, now you heard it

 

Quoting lemon

the gospel of Mathew (the former tax collector personally called by Jesus) is one of the 12 disciples (or apostles).

Gospel of Mark - another disciple of Christ, but not one of the 12. He was in an outer circle, but still close to Jesus.

Gospel of Luke - joined disciples after resurection.

Gospel of John - one of the 12, the beloved disciple of Christ, lived longer than all the 12 apostles.

 

Enough?

 

What about the remained 9 (or 8 or 5) disciples? Any contribution from them to/for the Bible?

First of all there were many disciples not only 12.

The initial 12 were chosen and appointed by Jesus. But in fact all in all there 14 of them. Judas Iskariot after betrayal was of course removed. And genious apostles decided that they would cast lot to chose from the outer circle of disciples (they chose Matthias), while Jesus was preparing and appointed Paul.

 

 

 

 



Edited (6/11/2010) by lemon

10.       lemon
1374 posts
 11 Jun 2010 Fri 06:35 pm

 

Quoting armegon

It is not that easy actually many blur points.

What blur points? {#emotions_dlg.unsure}

 

New testament consists of letters of Paul who is i think the real prophet of Christian religion.

Paul played an important and strong role of further discipleship. But he is not the core of Christianity. He merely was a tool like others were. He called himself a servant of Christ. He was a pharisee of pharisees, a real Jew, appointed apostle to gentiles - such a paradox - illogic thing to say.

 

The interesting thing is; Paul had never seen Jesus of Nazareth in his life, in fact at first he was a big enemy of Nazarenes who were the real followers of Jesus, but on his way to punish Nazarenes, something happened near Damascus and he declared himself as the follower of Jesus.

Lets first clear out one thing. Who are the Nazareans you are talking about? The Jews who followed Jesus were not only from Nazarea.

On his way to Damascus where he was heading to persecute believing Jews with his letters from the high Priest Annas. He was blinded by Jesus and was called to serve Him. For three days he didnt eat and drink until he received his sight back. From that time he earnestly started serving Christ and spreading the Good News about salvation (described in Acts).

 

But the Jesus he was telling, was different than the Nazarene people that they knew, so he had arguments with these people which is clear in his letters.

If you have good arguments for this, bring it on. If you are repeating after some people, then I think you shouldnt touch it. Paul was not in conflict with the gospel or with the message of Christ. He rebuked Peter for his hypocracy. and that is all. (again described in Acts)

 

The other interesting thing is; apostles and Jesus himself were talking the language of Aramaic like the Jews but the Gospels were written in Grek nearly 70 years after the Jesus´s dead.

They did speak Aramaic, but they too spoke Greek. At that time Greek was the international language like English today although it was the Roman Empire. This was the hellenised area. The majority of people could speak, read, write in Greek. It was also the language of business, arts and philosophy.

 

Furthermore there is no sign or evidence that these Gospels were written by for instance Mark, it does not say " I am apostle Mark/Matthew/Luke, and writing these"

The Gospels circulated among the first Christians as they were written from one church to another. They were sealed and titled as the gospels from those authors. I suppose they personally knew those apostles and did not need the confirmation as they received those gospels from the apostles themselves.

 

however in letters of Paul, Paul greets people declaring himself as a messenger who spreading the gospels from God.

In most letters Paul and other apostles wrote greetings, however, those were the short and specific letters to specific churches and persons.

 

So it can be said the new testament which are actually the biography of Jesus filtered by the thinking of Paul which is the basis of christianity and the faith only depends on the Jesus´s suffer on cross. The writings which oppoesed to these declared heretic by Church.

Wrong. The gospels are not the biography of Jesus, but the records of Jesus ministry, his messages and his deeds.

Its not only Paul but also other apostles who delivered such messages. Paul actually was the strict pharisee who was persecuting those converted Jews for spreading the messages about the salvation through the cross.

 

I didnt understand your very last sentence.

 

 

 

 

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