Turkish Poetry and Literature |
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HATIRLA BARBARA
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10. |
09 Jul 2010 Fri 01:34 am |
It rained incessantly . . .
Thank you for your time and trouble Slavica
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11. |
09 Jul 2010 Fri 01:54 am |
Well, "it rained without cease" sounds quite alright to me. A google search will confirm this.
I agree. It´s more archaic/old fashioned language perhaps, but as the speaker in the poem is looking back in time, it would seem an appropriate phrase. My alternative, "It rained incessantly" may not appeal either and there are others . . . "the rain was unceasing", "it rained unceasingly" "it rained without end" , "... without stopping". . . It all boils down to personal preference and which words people find pleasing to the ear. Anything goes in poetry, that´s the beauty of it . . . it´s good to play with language.
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12. |
09 Jul 2010 Fri 03:16 am |
I agree. It´s more archaic/old fashioned language perhaps, but as the speaker in the poem is looking back in time, it would seem an appropriate phrase. My alternative, "It rained incessantly" may not appeal either and there are others . . . "the rain was unceasing", "it rained unceasingly" "it rained without end" , "... without stopping". . . It all boils down to personal preference and which words people find pleasing to the ear. Anything goes in poetry, that´s the beauty of it . . . it´s good to play with language.
Ha ha
Come on PT, Lir is right there and I think you know it..
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13. |
09 Jul 2010 Fri 08:57 am |
Ha ha
Come on PT, Lir is right there and I think you know it..
You seem to want to have a "black or white" argument here, sorry but there isn´t one. I still agree that "without cease" is acceptable. That doesn´t mean I would use it myself and I gave several alternatives. "Cease" is archaic and I agree that "without cease" does sound strange.
Poetry as you know, is an art form and I would venture that anyone attempting to translate a poem takes on the role of a poet. They can use their own choice of word/phrase according to their own preference as long as the original meaning of the poem remains. We all witnessed such differences in translation not so long ago and both were equally good.
As I said, it´s poetry and anything goes. You cannot put everything in life into neat and tidy little boxes.
Edited (7/9/2010) by peacetrain
[I changed my mind, I didn´t edit]
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14. |
09 Jul 2010 Fri 09:22 am |
It rained incessantly . . .
Thank you for your time and trouble Slavica
I wasn´t having a go at Slavica - she didn´t do the translation! And ´it rained incessantly´ or possibly even ´ceaselessly´ was what I had in mind but the second translation Slavica found sounds good to me!
To Vineyards: I wouldn´t like to count the number of times those on TC who are actually trying to learn Turkish have been told ´you can´t really say that, we don´t say that´ - countering it with ´but it says I can in my book´! Trust me, if you said to someone English - ´it rained without cease today´ - you would get some very strange looks.
Sometimes when I look at the site dictionary I see ´English´ words which as far as I know haven´t been used in the last millennium - let alone the last century
Edited (7/9/2010) by lady in red
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15. |
09 Jul 2010 Fri 12:06 pm |
LIR. I wouldn´t use "without cease" in a casual conversation, that´s a given but you know it is really hard to find rhyming couples in English. It is actually difficult to write with rhythm and meter in your language. That´s why translated poems are full of forced rhymes.
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16. |
09 Jul 2010 Fri 12:26 pm |
Edited (8:59 am) by peacetrain [I changed my mind, I didn´t edit]
If you don´t edit, you don´t press ´send´ and you can just hit the back button and nothing will change! No need to explain
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17. |
09 Jul 2010 Fri 12:43 pm |
LIR. I wouldn´t use "without cease" in a casual conversation, that´s a given but you know it is really hard to find rhyming couples in English. It is actually difficult to write with rhythm and meter in your language. That´s why translated poems are full of forced rhymes.
I´m sure it´s hard to find rhyming couplets in any language but neither the French original nor the English translation used this medium so ´without cease´ didn´t really make the poem ´flow´ any better than using ´ceaselessly´, ´endlessly´ or even ´without a break´.
The reason I commented on the use of ´without cease´ is that, to me - a native speaker - it ´grated´ on my ear. Maybe I shouldn´t have criticised the translator for using it - but my personal opinion was that it sounded weird...I will cease with this comment
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18. |
09 Jul 2010 Fri 09:32 pm |
Quoting lady in red
I wasn´t having a go at Slavica - she didn´t do the translation! And ´it rained incessantly´ or possibly even ´ceaselessly´ was what I had in mind but the second translation Slavica found sounds good to me!
I didn´t think anyone was having a go at me, it´s ok
I just wanted to say that, if my English was better and if I was able to get into all its finesses, I could probably find a better translation.
As for example, there is one translation with " It rained incessantly . . ." included:
Remember Barbara It rained incessantly on Brest that day And you walked smiling É panou delighted streaming In the rain Remember Barbara It rained incessantly on Brest And I´ve cross street of Siam You smiled And I just smiled Remember Barbara You I do not know You who do not know me Remember Remember when this same day Remember A man was hiding under a porch And he shouted your name Barbara And you ran into him in the rain Dripping delighted blooming And you threw yourself into his arms Remember that Barbara And do not blame me if I´m familiar terms I tell you to everyone I love Even if I saw them only once I tell you all those who love Even if I do not know Remember Barbara Remember This rain wise and happy On your happy face On this happy city The rain on the sea On the arsenal On the boat Ouessant Oh Barbara What bullshit war What are you now become Under this rain of iron Fire Steel Blood And whoever you hugged Lovingly Is he dead or disappeared alive Oh Barbara It rains incessantly Brest As it rained before But this is no longer the same and everything is damaged It is a terrible rain of mourning and desolate This is not even a storm Iron Steel Blood Just clouds Who die like dogs Dogs that disappear Over water on Brest And will rot away In the distance far from Brest Which nothing remains.
Unfortunarely, I couldn´t find the name of the translator...
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19. |
10 Jul 2010 Sat 02:40 am |
I wasn´t having a go at Slavica - she didn´t do the translation! And ´it rained incessantly´ or possibly even ´ceaselessly´ was what I had in mind but the second translation Slavica found sounds good to me!
To Vineyards: I wouldn´t like to count the number of times those on TC who are actually trying to learn Turkish have been told ´you can´t really say that, we don´t say that´ - countering it with ´but it says I can in my book´! Trust me, if you said to someone English - ´it rained without cease today´ - you would get some very strange looks. Yes, it´s not a phrase one would use in conversation, but in poetry it would be more acceptable, although not perhaps in the case of this poem, for the reasons you´ve already mentioned. Technically it´s ok, but artistically not the best choice.
Sometimes when I look at the site dictionary I see ´English´ words which as far as I know haven´t been used in the last millennium - let alone the last century Very true.
I don´t think anyone thought you were having a go at Slavica. It´s good to discuss use of English sometimes because it helps users who are learning the language. That´s why I provided a few alternatives.
Thanks for the tip about editing. Now . . . have you any tips for getting rid of a frozen screen? My laptop is very moody nowadays and I am a technopleb.
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