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Turkish Poetry and Literature

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HATIRLA BARBARA
(19 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
1 [2]
10.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 01:34 am

It rained incessantly . . .

 

Thank you for your time and trouble Slavica {#emotions_dlg.flowers}

11.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 01:54 am

 

Quoting vineyards

Well, "it rained without cease" sounds quite alright to me. A google search will confirm this.

 

I agree. It´s more archaic/old fashioned language perhaps, but as the speaker in the poem is looking back in time, it would seem an appropriate phrase.  My alternative, "It rained incessantly" may not appeal either and there are others . . . "the rain was unceasing", "it rained unceasingly"  "it rained without end"  , "... without stopping". . . It all boils down to personal preference and which words people find pleasing to the ear.  Anything goes in poetry, that´s the beauty of it . . . it´s good to play with language.

12.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 03:16 am

 

Quoting peacetrain

 

 

I agree. It´s more archaic/old fashioned language perhaps, but as the speaker in the poem is looking back in time, it would seem an appropriate phrase.  My alternative, "It rained incessantly" may not appeal either and there are others . . . "the rain was unceasing", "it rained unceasingly"  "it rained without end"  , "... without stopping". . . It all boils down to personal preference and which words people find pleasing to the ear.  Anything goes in poetry, that´s the beauty of it . . . it´s good to play with language.

 

Ha ha

Come on PT,  Lir is right there and I think you know it.. lol lol

 

13.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 08:57 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Ha ha

Come on PT,  Lir is right there and I think you know it.. lol lol

 

 

You seem to want to have a "black or white" argument here, sorry but there isn´t one.  I still agree that "without cease" is acceptable.  That doesn´t mean I would use it myself and I gave several alternatives.  "Cease" is archaic and I agree that "without cease" does sound strange.

Poetry as you know, is an art form and I would venture that anyone attempting to translate a poem takes on the role of a poet.  They can use their own choice of word/phrase according to their own preference as long as the original meaning of the poem remains.  We all witnessed such differences in translation not so long ago and both were equally good.

As I said, it´s poetry and anything goes. You cannot put everything in life into neat and tidy little boxes.

 



Edited (7/9/2010) by peacetrain [I changed my mind, I didn´t edit]

14.       lady in red
6947 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 09:22 am

 

Quoting peacetrain

It rained incessantly . . .

 

Thank you for your time and trouble Slavica {#emotions_dlg.flowers}

 

I wasn´t having a go at Slavica - she didn´t do the translation!  And ´it rained incessantly´ or possibly even ´ceaselessly´ was what I had in mind but the second translation Slavica found sounds good to me!

To Vineyards:   I wouldn´t like to count the number of times those on TC who are actually trying to learn Turkish have been told ´you can´t really say that, we don´t say that´ - countering it with ´but it says I can in my book´!  Trust me, if you said to someone English - ´it rained without cease today´ - you would get some very strange looks.

Sometimes when I look at the site dictionary I see ´English´ words which as far as I know haven´t been used in the last millennium - let alone the last century



Edited (7/9/2010) by lady in red

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15.       vineyards
1954 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 12:06 pm

LIR. I wouldn´t use "without cease" in a casual conversation, that´s a given but you know it is really hard to find rhyming couples in English. It is actually difficult to write with rhythm and meter in your language. That´s why translated poems are full of forced rhymes.

16.       lady in red
6947 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 12:26 pm

Quoting peacetrain

Edited (8:59 am) by peacetrain [I changed my mind, I didn´t edit]

 

If you don´t edit, you don´t press ´send´ and you can just hit the back button and nothing will change!  No need to explain

17.       lady in red
6947 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 12:43 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

LIR. I wouldn´t use "without cease" in a casual conversation, that´s a given but you know it is really hard to find rhyming couples in English. It is actually difficult to write with rhythm and meter in your language. That´s why translated poems are full of forced rhymes.

 

I´m sure it´s hard to find rhyming couplets in any language but neither the French original nor the English translation used this medium so ´without cease´ didn´t really make the poem ´flow´ any better than using ´ceaselessly´, ´endlessly´ or even ´without a break´.  

The reason I commented on the use of ´without cease´ is that, to me - a native speaker - it ´grated´ on my ear.  Maybe I shouldn´t have criticised the translator for using it - but my personal opinion was that it sounded weird...I will cease with this comment

 

 

 

 

18.       slavica
814 posts
 09 Jul 2010 Fri 09:32 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

I wasn´t having a go at Slavica - she didn´t do the translation!  And ´it rained incessantly´ or possibly even ´ceaselessly´ was what I had in mind but the second translation Slavica found sounds good to me!

 

 

I didn´t think anyone was having a go at me, it´s ok {#emotions_dlg.flowers}

 

I just wanted to say that, if my English was better and if I was able to get into all its finesses, I could probably find a better translation.

 

As for example, there is one translation with " It rained incessantly . . ." included:

 

Remember Barbara
It rained incessantly on Brest that day
And you walked smiling
É panou delighted streaming
In the rain
Remember Barbara
It rained incessantly on Brest
And I´ve cross street of Siam
You smiled
And I just smiled
Remember Barbara
You I do not know
You who do not know me
Remember
Remember when this same day
Remember
A man was hiding under a porch
And he shouted your name
Barbara
And you ran into him in the rain
Dripping delighted blooming
And you threw yourself into his arms
Remember that Barbara
And do not blame me if I´m familiar terms
I tell you to everyone I love
Even if I saw them only once
I tell you all those who love
Even if I do not know
Remember Barbara
Remember
This rain wise and happy
On your happy face
On this happy city
The rain on the sea
On the arsenal
On the boat Ouessant
Oh Barbara
What bullshit war
What are you now become
Under this rain of iron
Fire Steel Blood
And whoever you hugged
Lovingly
Is he dead or disappeared alive
Oh Barbara
It rains incessantly Brest
As it rained before
But this is no longer the same and everything is damaged
It is a terrible rain of mourning and desolate
This is not even a storm
Iron Steel Blood
Just clouds
Who die like dogs
Dogs that disappear
Over water on Brest
And will rot away
In the distance far from Brest
Which nothing remains.

 

 Unfortunarely, I couldn´t find the name of the translator...

 

19.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 10 Jul 2010 Sat 02:40 am

 

Quoting lady in red

 

 

I wasn´t having a go at Slavica - she didn´t do the translation!  And ´it rained incessantly´ or possibly even ´ceaselessly´ was what I had in mind but the second translation Slavica found sounds good to me!

To Vineyards:   I wouldn´t like to count the number of times those on TC who are actually trying to learn Turkish have been told ´you can´t really say that, we don´t say that´ - countering it with ´but it says I can in my book´!  Trust me, if you said to someone English - ´it rained without cease today´ - you would get some very strange looks.   Yes, it´s not a phrase one would use in conversation, but in poetry it would be more acceptable, although not perhaps in the case of this poem, for the reasons you´ve already mentioned.  Technically it´s ok, but artistically not the best choice.

Sometimes when I look at the site dictionary I see ´English´ words which as far as I know haven´t been used in the last millennium - let alone the last century Very true.

I don´t think anyone thought you were having a go at Slavica.  It´s good to discuss use of English sometimes because it helps users who are learning the language. That´s why I provided a few alternatives.

 

Thanks for the tip about editing.  Now . . . have you any tips for getting rid of a frozen screen?  My laptop is very moody nowadays and I am a technopleb.

 

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