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Kurd-free Turkey?
(40 Messages in 4 pages - View all)
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30.       vineyards
1954 posts
 03 Jun 2012 Sun 02:46 am

Barba_Mama, this world is a very complicated place when it comes to international relations.

There are certain things which you think I am taking for granted; it took me quite a while to come to grasp of them. You are trying a balanced approach, mostly sitting on the fence, idealizing the sides as a mixture of right and wrong and you are right up to a certain extent.

Nevertheless, conflicts between nations or communities are far from being simple matters that can be settled with this approach. They are like an iceberg; instead of ice, they are made up of hatred. You can´t judge it by what it looks like because much of it is concealed from eyes.

Take up another angle and consider, why there should be so much hatred and violence in the world? There are borders that isolate people from one another or in the case of civil wars, people involved usually have long spells of peace and jointly formed civilizations. Human nature is neither good nor bad. Unless provoked collectively, they don´t usually harm other people.

If there is war in this world, it is seldom caused by those who seem to be doing the fight. There are known fire starters, they produce the weapons, they have the intelligence, and they have a global coverage of those things. Wars are actually often started by the powers that be. Every now and them, you hear them warmongering, inviting troops from their allies. They are the ones with bases all around the world. Their intelligence services far exceed the reach of the BBC. In short, you need to be a superpower to decide who will kill whom.

Kurds in Turkey is a long story but rest assured, in every episode of this conflict, there is the hand of powers that be. It is a multi-billion dollar project. Without the support of the secret services, they couldn´t survive a day let alone owning expensive weapons, logistic and intelligence channels.

slavica liked this message
31.       vineyards
1954 posts
 03 Jun 2012 Sun 02:48 am

I think there is an anomaly in the message system. When I posted an answer to Barba Mama´s message it appeared as if she posted it. When I deleted that one both messages disappeared.

 

32.       catwoman
8933 posts
 04 Jun 2012 Mon 06:48 am

 

Quoting vineyards

I think there is an anomaly in the message system. When I posted an answer to Barba Mama´s message it appeared as if she posted it. When I deleted that one both messages disappeared.

 

 

reported to Admin, sorry about the problem.

33.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 04 Jun 2012 Mon 01:53 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

Barba_Mama, this world is a very complicated place when it comes to international relations.

There are certain things which you think I am taking for granted; it took me quite a while to come to grasp of them. You are trying a balanced approach, mostly sitting on the fence, idealizing the sides as a mixture of right and wrong and you are right up to a certain extent.

Nevertheless, conflicts between nations or communities are far from being simple matters that can be settled with this approach. They are like an iceberg; instead of ice, they are made up of hatred. You can´t judge it by what it looks like because much of it is concealed from eyes.

Take up another angle and consider, why there should be so much hatred and violence in the world? There are borders that isolate people from one another or in the case of civil wars, people involved usually have long spells of peace and jointly formed civilizations. Human nature is neither good nor bad. Unless provoked collectively, they don´t usually harm other people.

If there is war in this world, it is seldom caused by those who seem to be doing the fight. There are known fire starters, they produce the weapons, they have the intelligence, and they have a global coverage of those things. Wars are actually often started by the powers that be. Every now and them, you hear them warmongering, inviting troops from their allies. They are the ones with bases all around the world. Their intelligence services far exceed the reach of the BBC. In short, you need to be a superpower to decide who will kill whom.

Kurds in Turkey is a long story but rest assured, in every episode of this conflict, there is the hand of powers that be. It is a multi-billion dollar project. Without the support of the secret services, they couldn´t survive a day let alone owning expensive weapons, logistic and intelligence channels.

 

Just because I feel that the truth lies between the "they are bad, they are evil, it´s them versus them" approach, does not mean I´m sitting on the sidelines. I just think I´m being realistic. Nothing in the real world is black and white. I also think that powers to be can start a conflict without a base of discontent being there. They can add fuel to the fire, but the fire needs to be there already!

For example, the PKK influences Kurdish people negatively, making them even more angry. BUT, if Kurdish people were very happy with their lives to start with, and treated equally as the rest of the Turkish citizens, the PKK would only be heard by nobody, and dismissed by Kurdish people as a bunch of weirdos. When we talk about Kurds, we seem to focus on PKK. I hate that focus, because it is not the everyday reality of the average Kurd. What I see as "the Kurdish conflict" consists of PKK, but ALSO of the way Kurdish people are treated sometimes. I know several restaurant owners in a certain Turkish resort. They all got permits to open a teras in front of their restaurant...EXCEPT for the Kurdish restaurant owners who were born in the East! They had to go to the court to battle the Belediye, and only after that they were allowed half of the space the other restaurant owners were assigned. THIS is also part of the conflict, and people need to open their eyes for this reality too. For the average Kurd, it is not about bombs or wanting to kill people, but about being treated equally, and having rights to be themselves.



Edited (6/4/2012) by barba_mama

34.       vineyards
1954 posts
 04 Jun 2012 Mon 09:10 pm

This is not something unilateral Barba, Kurds often act as a community or a tribe and they tend to monopolize where they are doing business. Wherever there is a Kurdish community in charge of something, there is no room for Turks. You may think this would be a generalization but your example is no different. Truth be told, these two communities hate each other. Turks consider Kurds as a boil on their heads. There is no way out for either community. Maybe, the Kurds are waiting for the day when the US offers them a portion of Turkey on a golden plate. Just as they did in Iraq.

 

35.       si++
3785 posts
 05 Jun 2012 Tue 09:06 am

 

Quoting barba_mama

 

 

Just because I feel that the truth lies between the "they are bad, they are evil, it´s them versus them" approach, does not mean I´m sitting on the sidelines. I just think I´m being realistic. Nothing in the real world is black and white. I also think that powers to be can start a conflict without a base of discontent being there. They can add fuel to the fire, but the fire needs to be there already!

For example, the PKK influences Kurdish people negatively, making them even more angry. BUT, if Kurdish people were very happy with their lives to start with, and treated equally as the rest of the Turkish citizens, the PKK would only be heard by nobody, and dismissed by Kurdish people as a bunch of weirdos. When we talk about Kurds, we seem to focus on PKK. I hate that focus, because it is not the everyday reality of the average Kurd. What I see as "the Kurdish conflict" consists of PKK, but ALSO of the way Kurdish people are treated sometimes. I know several restaurant owners in a certain Turkish resort. They all got permits to open a teras in front of their restaurant...EXCEPT for the Kurdish restaurant owners who were born in the East! They had to go to the court to battle the Belediye, and only after that they were allowed half of the space the other restaurant owners were assigned. THIS is also part of the conflict, and people need to open their eyes for this reality too. For the average Kurd, it is not about bombs or wanting to kill people, but about being treated equally, and having rights to be themselves.

 

Where have you seen it? Do you think it is the same behavior everywhere. I have a restaurant near to my house owned by Kurds and they are all over the street for example (more than their Turkish neighbours).

 

Adam25 liked this message
36.       burakk
309 posts
 03 Apr 2013 Wed 07:34 pm

pkk is not kurds

MehmetK liked this message
37.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 03 Apr 2013 Wed 08:02 pm

 

Quoting burakk

pkk is not kurds

 

Agreed..

Most probably, they are from Republic of Molossia..

38.       burakk
309 posts
 04 Apr 2013 Thu 12:36 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

Agreed..

Most probably, they are from Republic of Molossia..

 

 

 saying kurds are pkk is as dumb as saying Muslims are hizbullah or Turks are ibda-c

MehmetK liked this message
39.       burakk
309 posts
 04 Apr 2013 Thu 12:41 pm

even dumber

40.       Treize
3 posts
 15 Feb 2014 Sat 01:25 pm

I never really understood the resentment towards the Kurds.

 

The Turkish Republic was founded on the principle of one nation, one identity, one language. This is ofcourse problematic when you have people like the Kurds who have a distinct culture and language. They appear to be a proud people who value their own culture and language, unlike the Lazes and Arabs who do not seem to value the survival of their own languages very much (hench they are dying out).

Ofcourse a great many people in Turkey uphold the (Kemalist) state ideology in which there is no place for a Kurdish identity or language but I am not very sure the resentment towards Kurds is:

A.) because they do not wish to assimilate into ´Turkishness´ (and fight for that if neccesary); or

B.) because the Kurds have an old-fashioned, tribal culture which is ´backwards´ with large families (causing poverty), honour killings and those kinds of things. Also Kurds behaving badly in cities outside of the ´Kurdish homeland´-region.

 

Could it be a combination?

MehmetK liked this message
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