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US to spy on Internet messaging
(43 Messages in 5 pages - View all)
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20.       lemon
1374 posts
 03 Oct 2010 Sun 05:00 am

 

Quoting vineyards

Hegel said something which could be instrumental in reaching a verdict about governments´ use of new opportunities offered by technology to gather information on their subjects:

 

"... the State ´has the supreme right against the individual, whose supreme duty is to be a member of the State... for the right of the world spirit is above all special priveleges.´"

Now you might say, ours is a capitalist regime and we are in favour of personal freedoms. Yet, behind the curtains, there is an ever existing tendency which dwells upon the true nature of humans which is utterly selfish and highly opportunistic as per explained by Hegel.

We can continue quoting from Hegel, he famously proposed that all processes follow a THESIS & ANTITHESIS clash. It is stated that terrorist activity could serve an antithesis of a government policy. Through the clash of these strings of theses and antitheses a SYNTHESIS is reached. When that syntheses comes about, a discernable progress will have been accomplished only to be eroded by further clashes between new pairs of thesis and antithesis.

That the governments tend to act like big brothers at times of conflict and chaos must be associated with the interaction between thesis and antithesis. Remember the cold war era, the two mighty nations closed their doors to one another and advocated two entirely different political systems. When the clash between their theses was over, Russia emerged as a fast growing capitalist economy and the US, once the land of freedom turned into a nation dominated by xenophobic ideals. Don´t take offense at these words, I believe the US is still way more liberal than many other countries.

 

 

 Totally agree. and thank you for bringing thesis and antithesis. Wonderful post!

21.       lemon
1374 posts
 03 Oct 2010 Sun 05:01 am

Quoting vineyards

...but for a better world, the US must be the champion of freedom not that of ethnic or religious hatred...

Lets not exaggerate!

22.       lemon
1374 posts
 03 Oct 2010 Sun 05:05 am

Quoting TheAenigma

Si++ this is not news!!! It goes on in every country in the world - its just that some countries are more "up front" about it.

Most people think that only serious national threats are an excuse for surveillance, but (shockingly) it is surprisingly easy for people to spy on you for very little reason.  For example, in the UK, every local authority (Council) has powers to monitor all activity from your IP address (including your emails) for the most lame reasons, i.e. fly tipping, attending a school that is not in your area etc.  However, phone lines are considered a bit more private and only police and the home office may listen to them.  Even so, every single phone call made (mobile or land line) and every text message sent is recorded (although not listened to unless for a reason).

People in the UK may be shocked to discover the UK rules on such things:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_of_Investigatory_Powers_Act_2000

If you feel strongly about it, you are entitled, under the Freedom of Information Act, to ask for a list of people that your local council has spyed on, who authorised it, and the reason why.  You would be amazed at the results!!!

 

Exactly! and you are being monitored everyday "for your own security and safety".

23.       busyb
117 posts
 03 Oct 2010 Sun 03:44 pm

All this spying business reminds me of entrapment. Not because the law etc is inducing a person to commit an offense that the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit but in other ways like the law/government wouldn´t have known if anyone was commiting an offence without spying on them in the first place. (They also wouldn´t have known if a person would commit a crime without entrapping them in the first place).

 

The biggest one of them all though is that if they catch someone watching/dowloading something illegal, whether it be child pornography or even the recently released movie, they shouldn´t just go for the person who is downloading it for personal use but the person who is running the site itself and they would be able to do that a lot quicker if they wasn´t spying on every tom, dick and harry they pleased but just simply have some common sense and type in something on google or some other search engine to find an illegal act going on and then do the work they was meant to do.

24.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 03 Oct 2010 Sun 05:25 pm

Yeah, the thing is countries have different policies towards illegal downloads - some sites are in countries that do not protect copyright. If I´m not mistaken, it is perfectly legal to download music/films in Poland, provided you erease them from your disc within 24 hrs. Upload, on the other hand, is illegal

25.       busyb
117 posts
 03 Oct 2010 Sun 09:41 pm

 

Quoting Daydreamer

Yeah, the thing is countries have different policies towards illegal downloads - some sites are in countries that do not protect copyright. If I´m not mistaken, it is perfectly legal to download music/films in Poland, provided you erease them from your disc within 24 hrs. Upload, on the other hand, is illegal

 

 Hmmm as interesting as that is, somehow I don´t see anyone dowloading something to a disc for just 24 hours {#emotions_dlg.unsure}

26.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 04 Oct 2010 Mon 08:00 am

 

Quoting Daydreamer

I sign online petitions with my real name but I never give home address or other details to sites other than shopping ones, and I have one email that I use for registering to sites and one that is my private official one.

I do the same. 

I don´t get any spam through my private email address and didn´t get a great deal through the one I use for registering on sites.  In fact, I don´t register on many sites.  I don´t visit dodgy sites either. So. . . now I am wondering just how effective the "Big Brother" system is because recently I have been receiving a great deal of spam (about 5 a day) through the email address I use for registering . . . "Do I want to buy Viagra?" "Do I want to acknowledge my application to join the Yaho Group´sexy Miss Webcam´?" etc. 

I don´t know who they employ to spy but they are definitely not secret service material.lol

 

27.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 04 Oct 2010 Mon 12:13 pm

 

Quoting peacetrain

 

I do the same. 

I don´t get any spam through my private email address and didn´t get a great deal through the one I use for registering on sites.  In fact, I don´t register on many sites.  I don´t visit dodgy sites either. So. . . now I am wondering just how effective the "Big Brother" system is because recently I have been receiving a great deal of spam (about 5 a day) through the email address I use for registering . . . "Do I want to buy Viagra?" "Do I want to acknowledge my application to join the Yaho Group´sexy Miss Webcam´?" etc. 

I don´t know who they employ to spy but they are definitely not secret service material.lol

 

 

The "big brother" system is very effective, if even someone in your local council has powers to read every email you write, every post you have written on a website, every msn conversation you have?  They should not have such powers! 

They do this for such minute reasons as "not attending the correct school in your area" or "fly tipping" or making elected people feel a bit uncomfortable when you start to question their motives.  Unbelievable!

28.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 04 Oct 2010 Mon 03:52 pm

It is unbelievable that a person from a local council, who might know you in person, has the right to read your private correspondence! I´ve never heard of something like that. It´s a whole way different from a computerised system looking for "key words." And it definitely has a potential to result in abuse

29.       alameda
3499 posts
 04 Oct 2010 Mon 11:01 pm

What rock have you had your head under? Who knows who reads your stuff? ...but I can´t say I really have had any illusion of privacy online....you are probably less private online than anywhere. After all, it is an invention of DARPA.

I do object to having my very body invaded by things like the backskatter xrays now being used at many airports. I wouldn´t want to walk around naked, or do I in any way like to have photos of my naked self anyplace. Besides the invasion of my privacy and there are health concerns. It is an xray and there IS radiation.....

I also question the collection of DNA as a crime fighting tool. The problem with DNA is it involves one´s whole familial lineage, opening up another can of worms. Then....it really isn´t fool proof.

There have been incidents where one person carried more than one set of DNA, say one in the mouth and another in the blood. Intersex persons have multiple sets of DNA. So, say DNA is collected from the inside of the cheek, but there is another in the blood?

Then there are cases of chimeras, such as the case of Lynda Fairchild, a chimera (....read the twin inside me.) To make it brief, she was tested for proof of maternity. When her sons were tested, (several times) they didn´t match. In fact the DNA was so off, her maternity was questioned and she was about to be prosecuted for fraud and loose her children, when a lawyer who handled a similar case stepped up and was able to bring to light the fact Lynda was a chimera.

I value my privacy. If you do to, you may like to check out the Electronic Frontier Foundation´s website. There are some interesting questions to consider.

Quoting Daydreamer

It is unbelievable that a person from a local council, who might know you in person, has the right to read your private correspondence! I´ve never heard of something like that. It´s a whole way different from a computerised system looking for "key words." And it definitely has a potential to result in abuse

 

 

30.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 05 Oct 2010 Tue 01:21 am

I´m sorry Alameda, but you´re sounding a tad paranoid. I don´t know why this obsession of your very self being watched instead of billions of other Internet users. Like I said, I do not have any skeletons in my closet and I don´t really give a rat´s tutu whether somebody chooses me over all other users to read my emails to friends, in which I tell them about my son´s development.

DNA discrimination? Are you for real? You mind alleged DNA tracing but you´re ok with women being openly treated like dirtbags in the Middle East? How about being against finger print based evidence since it may happen that one person had them surgically removed...

See, people don´t need to go as deep as DNA goes to discriminate, in most cases it´s enough to have a visible quality - like age, gender or race.

You may choose to disagree with me, but Internet surveillance has more benefits than actual threats to the freedom of individual. Besides, you´re free to stop using it if you value your privacy that much.

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