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Police raid publishing house, Radikal headquarters over journalist Şık’s book
(15 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
1 [2]
10.       stumpy
638 posts
 27 Mar 2011 Sun 05:45 pm

Quote:barba_mama

I have NO idea, since the writer could not even THINK about publishing it without the Turkish police arresting him. I am sure that if I was in the authorities position, I would not raid that publishing house. I would spend my time fighting actual terrorists, or fight the corruption that is present in the government.

My comment was not aimed directly at you but was a comment about your post.

What about the Patrio Act the has been signed into law on October 26 2001 by Goerge W Bush?  Do you know that with that law, the US authoreties can detaine you without any concret proof that you are a terrorist?  They only have to suspect that you are to detaine you.  That law is no better than the Enabling Act of 1933 which removed power from the Reichstag and transfered power to Hitler´s cabinet.  The only diffrence is that it was voted in a democratic country!

Is that democratic?  Where is the "you are innocent until proven guilty" motto?  with that law you are automaticly guilty and you have to prove you are innocent!  They can search your home, workplace, friends home without any warrants.  Is that still democratic?  It is exactly the same as what you are accusing the Turkish authoreties of doing to the plublishing house.

In some countries if you borrow the book Mine Kampf by Hitler from a library it sends a flag to the authoreties, this is done in Canada and the US.  You buy hydroponic items you are flagged.  Do you know that if you buy fertiliser that is also flagged to the authoreties? And many other actions are recorded by the authoreties.  So it is not just the writters and such that are "shadowed" but the regular law abiding citizen. 

So when you say we live in a democratic country, it is not totally true.  We only have an appearance of democratie, which is exactly what our leaders wants us to beleive.

11.       vineyards
1954 posts
 27 Mar 2011 Sun 06:14 pm

Your messages are a bit perplexing. Were you stating a flaw inherent to all democracies when you replied to my first message? I believe your statement was a bit equivocal in this context.

As for what I am advocating, it is certain that journalism as a profession is far from being limited to its dictionary meaning in today´s (an possibly yesterday´s) world. There are extensions to the honorable basic function of journalism which deserve practically no respect (e.g. paparazzi, politically colored, biased publications etc.) And it is indeed questionable that these kinds of journalism should enjoy the same legal protection.

Nevertheless, what is being conveyed here is by the nature of the business are thoughts, opinions and news regardless of what principles they follow and there are laws aiming to control unlawful actions committed by the press.

This last incident might be considered as an example of censorship although we can´t prove therefore openly claim done under the control of the government, we can deduct this point from the general picture that clearly shows who is patronizing whom and whose interests are harmed by what action. 

 

 

 

Quoting stumpy

Quote:barba_mama

I have NO idea, since the writer could not even THINK about publishing it without the Turkish police arresting him. I am sure that if I was in the authorities position, I would not raid that publishing house. I would spend my time fighting actual terrorists, or fight the corruption that is present in the government.

 

My comment was not aimed directly at you but was a comment about your post.

What about the Patrio Act the has been signed into law on October 26 2001 by Goerge W Bush?  Do you know that with that law, the US authoreties can detaine you without any concret proof that you are a terrorist?  They only have to suspect that you are to detaine you.  That law is no better than the Enabling Act of 1933 which removed power from the Reichstag and transfered power to Hitler´s cabinet.  The only diffrence is that it was voted in a democratic country!

Is that democratic?  Where is the "you are innocent until proven guilty" motto?  with that law you are automaticly guilty and you have to prove you are innocent!  They can search your home, workplace, friends home without any warrants.  Is that still democratic?  It is exactly the same as what you are accusing the Turkish authoreties of doing to the plublishing house.

In some countries if you borrow the book Mine Kampf by Hitler from a library it sends a flag to the authoreties, this is done in Canada and the US.  You buy hydroponic items you are flagged.  Do you know that if you buy fertiliser that is also flagged to the authoreties? And many other actions are recorded by the authoreties.  So it is not just the writters and such that are "shadowed" but the regular law abiding citizen. 

So when you say we live in a democratic country, it is not totally true.  We only have an appearance of democratie, which is exactly what our leaders wants us to beleive.

 

 

12.       stumpy
638 posts
 27 Mar 2011 Sun 07:03 pm

Quote:vineyards

Your messages are a bit perplexing. Were you stating a flaw inherent to all democracies when you replied to my first message? I believe your statement was a bit equivocal in this context.

Maybe the messages are perplexing, uncertain or even confusing but so is the subject of freedome.  Freedome of press, speach, expression, thinking and choice ect. are not as clear cut and as black and white as people think they are.  Any kind of freedom comes with responsibilities and conscequences.  It is easy to say freedom of press has been opressed but the true context of the situation is not know.  Freedome does not mean that you are intitle to do or say what you want.  When one party says or does something and hides behind the freedome of whatever to justify their actions, do they take into consideration that their actions may have caused pain suffering and insult to others?

To every situation there are 2 sides to the coin, unfortunalty some chose to ignore this or not see the other side and others are more then aware of the flip side of the situation and those people are tagged as wanting to censor or quiet down and oppress the freedom of others.

Why was the publishing house raided?  Until the reasons of the raid are published in one way or another no one will truelly know.

13.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 28 Mar 2011 Mon 11:53 am

I´m not American, so I can´t be held responsible for any actions of George W. Bush. And yes, I was stunned about the patriot act as well. Are you using the mistakes others make (jihad on Rushdi, all failures of Bush jr.) as an excuse for the Turkish government to mess up? Two wrongs don´t make a right.

Oh, and since I´m not American me buying fertilizer also doesn´t flag anything. The fertilizer thing in America is for large quantities by the way. Enough to build a bomb...  And when this flag appears, it doesn´t mean that the government raids a farmer´s house or something. They just monitor other purchases somebody makes, to see if they are following a checklist of bomb-ingredients. You know bombs... things that can actually kill people. How was this unpublished book going to blow up and kill people? The only thing the police was trying to "save" through this raid was the Turkish government. And the role of a democratic government is NOT to protect itself, but to protect the CITIZENS of the country.



Edited (3/28/2011) by barba_mama

14.       stumpy
638 posts
 28 Mar 2011 Mon 12:56 pm

I was giving examples because you keep saying we live in democratic countries and I am saying our country, even yours, are not all that democratic. You would be surprised at what your government hides from you and the rest of the people.  And you would be surprised at what they do to controle their population.

And FYI it only takes one bag of frertilizer to make an affective bomb.



Edited (3/28/2011) by stumpy

15.       si++
3785 posts
 01 Apr 2011 Fri 10:42 am

"İmamın ordusu" was published in internet

Attorney generalship started an investigation

31 Mart 2011 Perşembe, 18:19:43
"İmamın ordusu" was published in internet

HABERTURK.COM

"İmamın ordusu", The book that´s transcriptions were collected by police - written by Ahmet Şık - was published in internet.

It has 298 pages, in the first page of book is written "who touch this die in vain". As soon as the publishment of book, it quickly spreads in internet.

In this context, İstanbul chief prosecutor the republic; Hakan Karaali started an investigation.

So, what is likely happen to people who downloaded the book from internet?

Internet Law specialist attorney Başak Purut says,

There is no inconvenience downloading book. Because there is not any rescription sending anybody. Moreover, even if this book is prohibited it is not a crime. Because yet there is not any ruling saying this book is an organizational document.

"But if the downloaded draft is send to others, this people could be fined"

she continues,

Because this activity can be considered as a distrubition and an investigation could be started against to them. Also if the proceeding concludes that the draft of the book as an organizational document, people could be fined owing to make propaganda in favor of organization.

 

Source: here

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