Women to put on pants in Parliament

Veiled women are facing trouble in some European countries. How do they live in Turkey?

Abla, This is one of the most debated issue that hasnt solved yet in Turkey. The women in general having difficulties, troubles all over the world . Not only "headscarf " , in many areas women are restricted in many countries in terms of  "dressing issues " , " political rights", "social rights", " dependency on men financily " , "discrimination in family " etc...

As you know , there are still restrictions and ban on "headscarf  " as the state is secular.

There are so many things to tell about the issue.

What would happen to her in the street? Would she be arrested, punished, molested? Would she have to stay inside her home all the time?

If this question is uncomfortable, feel free to ignore it. I´m just curious.

 Nothing would happen to her in the street. Women wearing headscarf are of course are freely walking on the streets without any trouble or condemnation. Turkey is predominantly muslim country as you know. Therefore veiled woman has no problem in social life, the only restriction is in public  areas such as public instutitions , hospitals...etc. For example a female doctor can not work with headscarf on at public [state]hospital but she can wear headscarf outside the hospital in her daily life.

 If you ask my opinion , that is wrong. I mean " If a woman can work with a [short] skirt then she should be able to work with headscarf too " To me it is "discrimination " and antidemocratic , hopefully these restrictions will be removed soon.

not to relaunch the whole debate tunci but why should the headscarf be accepted in puplic places when it is written in the laws that it is not to be worn?

we have a similar debate here in my country.  No religious icons in any public or govermental buildings.  Here it is the catholic cross.  We have the muslims that demand to wear their head scarves, the Sieks that demande to wear their kirpan and so on and when the officials say you cannot wear your scarf or you kirpan or your turban, they scream discrimination but when a catholic demands to display his religious icon he is told this is a secular country and you cannot but we have to accomodate other religious denominations.  Here it is called reasonable accommodation but reasonable towards other denominations not christians.

If christian icons cannot be dispalyed then other form should not be accepted at the same level.

We are seeing a trend here that muslim women, who in their country of origin did not wear her scarf or veil and then when she immigrates to a non muslim country she starts wearing her scarf or veil and demanding to wear it in places where the law clearly states no religious objets are to be displayed are to be displayed or worn.

If you could you should read Djemila Benhabib book called Soldat d´allah à l´assaut de l´occident ( allah soldiers on the assault of the occident), it is in French but it is a book about the how islamic radicals are imposing their idiologie on the occident.

I am not saying all Islamic people are radicals but there are radicalist out there and they are the ones that are imposing their ways on others and they do not care how they go about it and whom they insult or injure in the process.  And if a non Islamic stands up to them they are called racist and that they discriminate, what about what those islamic radicals, aren´t they racists and don´t they discriminate?

If I(a non muslim) have to accept their ways shouldn´t they(muslims) accept my ways also?  

I agree with tunci. Adult people should have the freedom to make their own choices.

I followed the discussion that took place in France, for instance, before they banned niqab. It is somewhat contradictory to talk about women´s freedom and at the same time put more limits on a small group of people who have it difficult enough.

when you immigrate to a contry that is said to be secular, do you not have to respect the laws of that country?

Also the niquab is viewed by non islamic as a way to oppres a woman.  If I cannot wear any form of clothing or jewelry that represents my religion because it is a law then it is expected that others should not wear anything religious either.  There should not be one law for christians, one for muslims and one for Jews and so on.

The same can be said for a country that already has laws that are established.  If the laws says no head scarves in govermental buildings then no head scarves, no exceptions. 

What is legal is not necessarily right. In a democratic country laws reflect people´s moral opinions but these two are not the same thing. People may disagree about legal matters. If there are enough people who disagree laws must be changed now and then. That´s what parliaments are for. It´s simple but sometimes we forget it.

stumpy, I think denied from wearing your own religious symbols you are being treated as a scapegoat. Maybe you can´t carry your crosses and hang your religious pictures in classroom walls as you like but the whole issue in Europe is about Muslims. It would have been too transparent to talk about hijabs only, that´s why they had to add crosses to the ban list. According to the same logic boys´ circumcision and halal slaughtering are allowed in European coutries only because Jews practice them also. Europe has a long tradition of equality and until recently it has been good news to the immigrant Muslims.

Every one should enjoy the same rights what comes to religion as long as they do not harm other people. This is what we agree about. For some reason people like to express their beliefs in public. Here in Egypt Orthodox Copts have a small cross tattoed in their wrist. When a Christian shopkeeper gives you your change he also tells you something with this mark.

We often forget that Islam is a religion which has a strong trust in ulama, the learned men and women. They are the ones who say what belongs to Islam and what doesn´t and this kind of assumptions especially if they come from outside the Muslim community may sound inappropriate.

Anyway, the original issue was the rules that concern Islamic clothing in secular Turkey. We can discuss these issues and say our opinions but after all it´s for the Turks to decide what is good for them, now and in the future.

Religion should be kept in churches, mosques and temples, it does not have it´s place in the government, religion is personal to the one praticing it.

Do we want to return to a time where religions ruled?