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Double Passive
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30.       si++
3785 posts
 15 Nov 2011 Tue 02:01 pm


Quoting Abla

You can find the definition for instance in the Wikipedia article

         Impersonal Passive.


I have visited the wikipedia page again:

In most languages that allow impersonal passives, only unergative verbs may undergo impersonal passivization.  Unaccusative verbs may not.  The ability to undergo this transformation is a frequently used test to distinguish unergative and unaccusative verbs.  In Turkish, for example, the verb çalışmak "to work" is unergative and may therefore be passivized:

Burada çalış-ıl-ır.
here work-PASS-PRESENT
"Here it is worked."

The verb ölmek "to die", however, is unaccusative and may not be passivized:

*Burada öl-ün-ür.
"Here it is died."

However its conclusion about unacusative verbs is not the case in Turkish.

For example "burada ölünür" is meaningful in Turkish.

Burada ölünür = "here it is died" (literally not meaningful in English)
meaning this is the place one can die (directly) or
this is the place one should live until he dies (indirectly)


Similarly you can say:

Burada doğulur = This is the place to be born

31.       Abla
3647 posts
 15 Nov 2011 Tue 02:18 pm

Well done, si++. These things that you write about unaccusative verbs ölmek and doğmak I could translate straight into Finnish and it would be valid information. There is a (narrow) use for täällä kuol|la|an and täällä synny|tä|än. But using them in speech requires a good sense of style because they are not quite normal language.

Somehow the whole concept of ergativity has slipped my memory. I remember having studied it a couple of times for exams a long time ago but obviously I have forgotten it the next day. Maybe it´s time to brush up some things.

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