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Using ´if´ in Turkish sentences, the ´ise´ suffix
(22 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
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20.       scalpel
1472 posts
 20 Feb 2012 Mon 01:17 pm

 

Quoting Abla

 

But there seems to be no aorist (even though I expected it)...

 

  Gallia valisi onu durdurmaya çalıştıysa da, yenilgiye uğradı.

 

Keep expecting.. It also could be written as this:

Gallia valisi onu durdurmaya çalışsa da başaramadı.*

 

*( I prefere başaramadı to yenilgiye uğradı in this sentence)      

 

 

21.       Abla
3599 posts
 28 Mar 2012 Wed 12:57 pm

 

For expressing real conditions in verbal clauses V + AOR + -se… is used:

Acele et|mez|se|n, treni kaçıracağız. ‘If you don’t hurry…’

 

When the condition is unreal, se is attached straight to the verb stem V + -se…:

Erken yat|sa|ydı|n, yorgun olmayacaktın. ‘If you slept early…’

 

Wishes are spoken out with the same formula. 

 

The above rule has been explained in a hundred threads before. But I still want to make sure how it works in existential (var/yok) and nominal (‘to be’/değil) sentences.

 

I choose as simple examples as possible:

 

‘If…’

Real condition

‘If…’

Unreal condition

Çocukları var.

Çocukları varsa…

‘If he has children…’

Çocukları olsa(ydı )…

‘If he had/had had children…’

Çocukları yok.

Çocukları yoksa…

‘If he doesn’t have children…’

Çocukları olmasa(ydı )…

‘If he didn’t have/hadn’t had children…’

Çocuklar evde.

Çocuklar evdeyse…

‘If the children are at home…’

Çocuklar evde olsa(ydı )…

‘If the children were/had been at home…’

Çocuklar evde  değil.

Çocuklar evde değilse…

‘If the children aren’t at home…’

Çocuklar evde olmasa(ydı )…

‘If the children weren’t/hadn’t been at home…’

 

 

In other words, when the condition is unreal the verb ol- is called for help.

 

Have I understood this correct? Are the translations in the table as they should be?



Edited (3/28/2012) by Abla

22.       Abla
3599 posts
 07 Jul 2012 Sat 04:51 pm

When tense/aspect/modality markers co-occur they appear in the order given below (Göksel – Kerslake). Copular markers (group 4) are composite. They consist of the copula -(y)- < *-i- and the grammatical marker –DI, -mIş or –sA. Copular markers attach to

 

1. nouns

2. verbs that contain one of the tense/aspect/modality suffixes in group 3

 

 

1

2

3

4

5

-(y)A ‘possibility’

-(y)Abil ‘possibility’

 

-(y)Iver ‘non-premeditative’

 

-DI ‘perfective’

 

-mIş ‘perfective, evidential’

 

-sA ‘conditional’

 

-(A/I)r/-z ‘aorist’

 

-(y)Acak ‘future’

 

-(I)yor ‘imperfective’

 

-mAlI ‘obligative’

 

-mAktA ‘imperfective’

 

-(y)A ‘optative’

Copular markers:

 

-(y)DI ‘past copula’

 

-(y)mIş ‘evidential copula’

 

-(y)sA ‘conditional copula’

-Dir ‘generalizing modality’

 

 

 

The double role of –sA- attracts attention here. It can occur either in group 3 or as a copular marker. I understand the difference is that of unreal and real conditions. That is why when it attaches to nouns it always denotes a real condition (of course because it is in the position of a copular marker!).



Edited (7/7/2012) by Abla
Edited (7/7/2012) by Abla

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