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´ -dik´ participle negatives???
1.       Tazx1
435 posts
 06 Jan 2012 Fri 07:36 pm

Dear someone ... I have almost got the hang of -dik participles ... but I am more than a bit confused regarding the Negative form ... for example:-

(Benim) geldiğimde >means> at the time of my coming

How can I say > at the time of my NOT coming?

It will help if someonecan give a few apt examples of NEGATIVE participles, using few common verbs as -dik nouns.

Say using, yapmak, etmek, sevmek, gitmek, aramak, istemek, yazmak, bağlamak, imzalamak ...

 

[using third person] Will it be >> yapmazdigi, or, yapmamadigi ... imzalamazdigi, or, imzalamamadigi ... etc. ??? 

... it gets a bit more confusing when -la, laş, -lan, etc are added to the verb stem.

 

I don´t even know if I am talking sense or nonsense !!

 

Thanks

Tazx1

2.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 06 Jan 2012 Fri 08:50 pm

 

Quoting Tazx1

Dear someone ... I have almost got the hang of -dik participles ... but I am more than a bit confused regarding the Negative form ... for example:-

(Benim) geldiğimde >means> at the time of my coming

How can I say > at the time of my NOT coming? Gelmediğimde

It will help if someonecan give a few apt examples of NEGATIVE participles, using few common verbs as -dik nouns.

Say using, yapmak, etmek, sevmek, gitmek, aramak, istemek, yazmak, bağlamak, imzalamak ...

Kullanmadıktan sonra at gitsin.

İşaret etmediğinden göremedim.

Sevmediğin için böyle söylüyorsun.

Gitmedikçe göremezsin.

İstemediğini söylüyor.

Yazmadığı belli.

Bağlamadığın için kaçmış.

İmzalamadığın belgeler bunlar.

 

[using third person] Will it be >> yapmazdigi, or, yapmamadigiyapmadığı ... imzalamazdigi, or, imzalamamadigi imzalamadığı ... etc. ??? 

... it gets a bit more confusing when -la, laş, -lan, etc are added to the verb stem.

 

I don´t even know if I am talking sense or nonsense !!

 

Thanks

Tazx1

 

 

3.       Abla
3647 posts
 06 Jan 2012 Fri 09:05 pm

I don´t know if this helps you but I always think the negative verb stem is another stem:

         gel|mek - gelme|mek

         kullan|mak - kullanma|mak.

When you want to make a -dik- participle which verb form do you start with: the infinitive. Then drop -mek- and add what you need. Believe me, they are so regular that it is almost dull.

Forget about personal inflection. Use the infinitive. In infinitives the negating suffix is always -me- or its variant. If the person has to be marked as it often has it will come after -dik- as the possessive suffix.

 



Edited (1/6/2012) by Abla

4.       scalpel
1472 posts
 06 Jan 2012 Fri 09:11 pm

 

Quoting Tazx1

I don´t even know if I am talking sense or nonsense !!

 

 

Sense

5.       scalpel
1472 posts
 06 Jan 2012 Fri 09:17 pm

 

Quoting Abla

I don´t know if this helps you but I always think the negative verb stem is another stem:

         gel|mek - gelme|mek

         kullan|mak - kullanma|mak.

 

Pretty true It´s another stem.. 

 

6.       scalpel
1472 posts
 06 Jan 2012 Fri 09:27 pm

 

Quoting Abla

 Use the infinitive. In infinitives the negating suffix is always -me- or its variant. If the person has to be marked as it often has it will come after -dik- as the possessive suffix.

 

 

That´s true

 

gelme.dik.im = gelmediğim

 

gelmediğim

gelmediğin

gelmediği

gelmediğimiz

gelmediğiniz

gelmedikleri

7.       Tazx1
435 posts
 06 Jan 2012 Fri 11:02 pm

scalpel, abla, gokyumu ... thank you all.

Actually the ´-me´ of the ... as in ´gelme´ [short form] instead of ´gelmek´ [infinitive] confuses me as to whether it is ´-me´ [for negative]

I now understand a bit better.

For example ... ´bildik´ as a verb [at the end of a sentence] would normally mean ´we knew´.

But ´bildik bir şey´ would mean > a known thing ... by its position in the sentence we can tell whether it is a ´-dik´ participle or a verb !!! ... thus ...

yap+tik+i [yaptigi] bir şey > thing that was done by he/she/it [affirmative]

yap+ma+dik+i [yapmadigi] bir şey > thing that was NOT done by ..... 

yapildigi bir şey > thing which was done.

yaplimadigi bir şey > thing that was NOT done.

 

At age 72 I am a bit of a dim-bulb ... you see.  Thanks to you all ... Harika if I am right ..... {#emotions_dlg.get_you} if I am wrong

 

Tazx1

 

8.       Abla
3647 posts
 07 Jan 2012 Sat 09:23 am

I respect your effort, Tazx1. I also wish to stay in the state of learning through my life and become a sharp and funny grandmother when the time comes.

I am no master of Turkish nor English but I think you are doing fine. Let me tell you a couple of things in your translations that paid my attention as a fellow learner:

Quote:Tazx1

yap+tik+i [yaptigi] bir şey > thing that was done by he/she/it [affirmative]

yap+ma+dik+i [yapmadigi] bir şey > thing that was NOT done by ..... 

yapildigi bir şey > thing which was done.

yaplimadigi bir şey > thing that was NOT done.

1. You translated yaptığı/yapmadığı bir şey with passive and agent which maybe doesn´t change the basic meaning. But still active is active and I would say ´the thing that she did/didn´t do´.

2. -dik- participle doesn´t actually carry a time aspect of its own. It adapts to the tense of the main clause. Thus  -  depending on how the sentence is to be continued  -  the action of the participle can be either in the present or the past. For example yapıldığı bir şey ´the thing that was done/is done´. It can be anything but future (this I am not sure about but let´s see if someone is going to jump to correct it).

 

9.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 07 Jan 2012 Sat 10:44 am

 

yap+tik+i [yaptigi] bir şey > a thing that was done by he/she/it [affirmative] 

yap+ma+dik+i [yapmadigi] bir şey >a thing that was NOT done by ..... 

yapildigi bir şey > thing which it was  made of. Discard "bir" from this sentence.

yaplimadigi bir şey > thing that it was NOT made of.

yapılan şey the thing which was/is done

 



Edited (1/7/2012) by gokuyum
Edited (1/7/2012) by gokuyum
Edited (1/7/2012) by gokuyum

10.       Tazx1
435 posts
 07 Jan 2012 Sat 10:37 pm

Thank you gokuyum ... I am glad to be in the company of a senior.  It gives me heart.

 

I take note of your correction ... but how shall I say

>´thing that was/is NOT done´ <  ????

 

Tazx1

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