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What is the Status of These Nouns?
(11 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
[1] 2
1.       Abla
3647 posts
 08 Feb 2012 Wed 11:53 am

Facebook’a üye oldum olalı hayatım değişti.
Almanya’da kış lastiği kanunen zorunlu hale geldi.
Küçükken karides yemezdim.
Korkut’a yeni gömlek almamız lazım.
Biz, onları Türk sanıyorduk.
Bizim apartanımızda hiç çocuk yok.

 

I can´t understand the above use of nouns. I would expect either an indefinite article or plural marking in them. And this type is usual, I see it all the time. Could someone explain this?

2.       MarioninTurkey
6124 posts
 09 Feb 2012 Thu 01:42 pm

 

Quoting Abla

Facebook’a üye oldum olalı hayatım değişti.
Almanya’da kış lastiği kanunen zorunlu hale geldi.
Küçükken karides yemezdim.
Korkut’a yeni gömlek almamız lazım.
Biz, onları Türk sanıyorduk.
Bizim apartanımızda hiç çocuk yok.

 

I can´t understand the above use of nouns. I would expect either an indefinite article or plural marking in them. And this type is usual, I see it all the time. Could someone explain this?

 I guess it is just a case of that´s the way it is in Turkish.

 

For example, in English the first one üye (member) would be singular whereas the second kış lastiği (winter tyre) would definitely be plural.

 

My life has changed since becoming a member of FB

Winter tyres have become mandatory by law in Germany.

 

 

 

 

3.       Abla
3647 posts
 09 Feb 2012 Thu 04:03 pm

Ok, thanks for your reply, MarioninTurkey. Be healthy.

4.       scalpel
1472 posts
 10 Feb 2012 Fri 03:54 pm

1. Bu derneğe üye oldum. Üye kayıtlarımız başlamıştır... but...  Yeni bir üyemiz daha oldu. Tüm üyelertoplantıya gelmeli. etc...

2. For pairs and sets, plural is possible also: Almanya´da kış lastikleri kanunen zorunlu hale geldi, Yeni ayakkabıların pek güzelmiş. Bu eldivenleri nereden aldın? etc...

3. Balık sevmem, Kiraz severim, Domates yemem, Elma aldım, Portakal getirdim.. but.. Balıklar pişti, Kirazlar yıkanacak, Domatesleri doğradın mı? Elmalar da güzelmiş... Bir elmanın olmazsa olmaz özelliği..  

4. This sentence is incorrect (to me).. it should be "Korkut´a yeni bir gömlek almamız lazım." 

5. Türk gibi, Türk sanmak, Türk usulü, etc.. but..  Mamma mia Türkler geldi! Bir Türkün en sevdiği şey.. Etc

6. Etrafta hiç çocuk yok. Çocuk dediğin yaramaz olur... but.. Şurada top oynayan çocukları görüyor musun? Daha önce böyle bir çocuk görmedim.

..

Will you be saying "be healthy" for me also?  

5.       Abla
3647 posts
 10 Feb 2012 Fri 03:56 pm

Always.

6.       Abla
3647 posts
 10 Feb 2012 Fri 08:55 pm

How to put it now...it seems that the referent of these nouns is a typical member of its own class or kind rather than an individual object. I actually warmly welcome this type because the clumsiest and most ugly suffix in Turkish is the plural -ler and this noun status helps to use it less.

Quote:scalpel

4. This sentence is incorrect (to me).. it should be "Korkut´a yeni bir gömlek almamız lazım."

 

Interesting. Where I found the sentence they said it may mean both singular and plural. Does this mean I can´t say

         İmelda Marcos ayakkabı çok seviyor ?

 

7.       scalpel
1472 posts
 11 Feb 2012 Sat 02:43 pm

 

Quoting Abla

Interesting. Where I found the sentence they said it may mean both singular and plural. Does this mean I can´t say

         İmelda Marcos ayakkabı çok seviyor ?

 

 

I disagree with those fine people

 

"Korkut´a yeni gömlek almamız lazım" 

 

It seems as if something wrong with this sentence.. To me, it cannot be both singular and plural..its plural is: Korkut´a yeni gömlekler almamız lazım. (but I must say that this sentence is a bit weird though it is grammatically correct.. instead of gömlekler I would say bir iki yeni gömlek/ birkaç yeni gömlek ) ..and its singular sounds nicer when having “bir” : Korkut´a yeni bir gömlek almamız lazım.

 

When an undefined singular noun modified by an adjective "bir" often appears in the between.. with “bir” it’s more meaningful..

 

Beyaz bir gömlek giyiyor olacağım - I will be wearing a white shirt.

 

A defined singular noun modified by an adjective needs not "bir"..

 

Beyaz gömleğimi giyiyor olacağım – I will be wearing my white shirt.

 

You can read many sentences like this one of those fine people.. and a native can come up with saying that there is nothing wrong with it.. a native who always prefer the shortest possible forms may tend to omit “bir” where there is any slight possibility.. but where there is not, he uses it.. can a learner perform the same slalom through the poles without hitting any as a native normally does?

 

Study the following examples..

 

İyi bir ata biniyor (iyi =>adj)

İyi ata biniyor (iyi =>adv)

 

Kötü bir araba kullanıyor (kötü=adj)

Kötü araba kullanıyor (kötü=adv)

 

İmelda Marcos ayakkabı çok seviyor ?

 

İmelda Marcos ayakkabıyı çok seviyor (non-countable, in its general meaning)

İmelda Marcos ayakkabıları çok seviyor. (countable, indicating more than one pair)

I think both are possible..

 

(see İmelda Marcos Syndrom  



Edited (2/11/2012) by scalpel [some more italic]

8.       harp00n
3993 posts
 11 Feb 2012 Sat 03:02 pm

Yes, it seems both are possible according to picture



Edited (2/11/2012) by harp00n

9.       Abla
3647 posts
 11 Feb 2012 Sat 04:48 pm

Quote:scalpel

İyi bir ata biniyor (iyi =>adj)

İyi ata biniyor (iyi =>adv)

 

Kötü bir araba kullanıyor (kötü=adj)

Kötü araba kullanıyor (kötü=adv)

I like this view. Like it´s actually the article that gives the status of an adjective.

The way you get irritated from bad language is becoming a legend, scalpel. My example was from a book. I´m sure you don´t want to know which book. Call me snobbish but I don´t take any native talk as information and when I ask I ask the best only.

10.       Abla
3647 posts
 12 Feb 2012 Sun 05:26 pm

Quote:scalpel

İmelda Marcos ayakkabıyı çok seviyor (non-countable, in its general meaning)

 

What if the object consists of humans, can you treat them the same way?

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