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Anastrophe sentence forms in Noun Clauses.
1.       tunci
7149 posts
 16 Apr 2012 Mon 12:48 am

 

Anastrophe sentence forms in Noun Clauses.

We come across sentences wherein the usual word order is inverted. To identify inverted sentence we simply look at the position of predicate in the sentence. If the predicate is in unusual place [in the begining or in the middle of the sentence] then the sentence can be called as "inverted sentence".

inversion in noun clauses ;

proper form [the predicate is in the end of the sentence] SOV

O öğrenci bugün sınıftaydı ---> That pupil today was in the class .

                      Predicate


Inverted form [the predicate is in the middle of the sentence]

O öğrenci sınıftaydı    bugün.  ---> That pupil was in the class today.

              Predicate     

    

Inverted form [the predicate is in the begining of the sentence]

Sınıftaydı    o öğrenci bugün.  ---> In the class was that pupil today.

 Predicate 

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2.       Abla
3647 posts
 16 Apr 2012 Mon 08:41 pm

I find it very interesting that

 

1. every constituent in a Turkish sentence is grammatically marked which makes it possible to play with the word order and

 

2. still the word order is quite fixed (at least a learner had better follow certain patterns) even though it didn´t have to be.

 

How meaningful are the changes in word order? All I know until now is that the place in front of the predícate is ear-marked and usually the stressed constituent is placed there. But for instance changes like tunci described in the previous message, what is it that they bring to the meaning?

 

 

 

 

3.       tunci
7149 posts
 17 Apr 2012 Tue 12:09 am

 

In proper verbal sentences the "stress" is in the closest word to predicate whereas in noun clauses "stress" is on "predicate".

          verbal sentence

Bugün okula Ali geldi. [ "Ali" is stressed as it is the closest word to the predicate[verb]]

        noun sentence

Ali bugün hasta. [ As this is a noun clause, the predicate is stressed [as it stresses the Ali´s physcial state ]

Bugün Ali hasta. [Again, as this is a noun clause, the predicate [the physcial state of Ali] is stressed]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

As we see in proper word order we find "stress" without moving the position of predicate whereas in inverted clauses to find the "stressed word" we change it into the proper sentence. For example ;

Geldi bugün okula Ali. --> In this inverted clause to find out the stressed word we move the predicate [geldi] into its usual place [into the end]

Bugün okula Ali geldi. --> So we have "Ali" stressed that is the closest word to predicate.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As long as the inverted clauses are formed in correctly [gramatically], there is not difference in the meaning apart from having unusual position of predicate.

We see inverted clauses in Poetry, literature...quite often. It is because to rhyme in words...Personally inverted forms sounds good to my ears..Such as ;

Gitti canımın cananı..

Bıraktı beni yaralı..

Ben bu dertten ölür isem..

Kime yazam fermanımı..

 



Edited (4/17/2012) by tunci

4.       Abla
3647 posts
 17 Apr 2012 Tue 12:34 am

No difference in meaning, you say. The changes must be made for stylistic or esthetic reasons or something similar, maybe in spoken language just because of the linear flow of language: words just follow one another after they ripen in the speaker´s mind.

 

Maybe that´s why the inverted clauses sound to me somehow...beautiful.

 

Very important information, I can´t remember I ever saw it anywhere. Thank you, tunci.

 

 

 

 

5.       Haydi
36 posts
 17 Apr 2012 Tue 04:53 am

Abla : However, avoid using that form if it´s a two-word verb. So please avoid saying :

et yardım

Say : yardım et

 

Turkish people use that structure because they are impatient or because they expect the person to know the rest of the question/sentence.

 

For example : Aldın mı defteri ? = Did you buy the notebook ? [By using this structure, the person asking the question expects the answer to know the rest of the question. Here the emphasis is on DID YOU BUY it.

 

Suppose that somebody told you they were going to buy a notebook. So you ask them :

Aldın mı defteri ? [Did you buy the notebook] Here the notebook is not emphasized. You expect them to know what you are talking about]

 

I hope this helps : ) )

6.       si++
3785 posts
 17 Apr 2012 Tue 09:54 am

 

Quoting Abla

No difference in meaning, you say. The changes must be made for stylistic or esthetic reasons or something similar, maybe in spoken language just because of the linear flow of language: words just follow one another after they ripen in the speaker´s mind.

 

Maybe that´s why the inverted clauses sound to me somehow...beautiful.

 

Very important information, I can´t remember I ever saw it anywhere. Thank you, tunci.

 

 

 

 

 

Word order changes are discussed here every now and then.

 

For example:

http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_49602

 

7.       Abla
3647 posts
 17 Apr 2012 Tue 07:16 pm

Quote:Haydi

Turkish people use that structure because they are impatient or because they expect the person to know the rest of the question/sentence.

 

That´s what I ment with linear flow of language. Maybe also sorting old and new information has to do with it.

 

What was really new for me in tunci´s reply is this:

Quote:tunci

As long as the inverted clauses are formed in correctly [gramatically], there is not difference in the meaning apart from having unusual position of predicate.

 

You know, this is not what I used to combine to agglutinative languages. My professor always said "The Finnish word order is free but always meaningful."  -  He was a very short man and I have a feeling no one listened to him because of this but he understood about syntax.  -  And now we have here an agglutinative language which has a free word order but apparently for no reason.

 

Word order is like a person´s height. Some of us are tall, some of us are short but every one has a height. The same way the words in a sentence, whether they are well organized or they found their place accidentally, always have an order. I mean as soon as we open our mouth they come out  -  how?  -  one by one.

 

 

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