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Reminder of Derivational Suffix -li
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10.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 23 Jun 2012 Sat 02:51 pm

 

Quoting Abla

 

 

I have noticed the overdose of ü in the latter syllables in Ottoman Turkish words. It surprises me. I mean if you want to break the vowel harmony why do it in the most difficult way? ü is probably the vowel variant that takes the greatest energy when pronouncing it: it is labial, it is round... Usually when phonologic rules are broken speakers are looking for what is easier, not what takes more labour.

 

Breaking phonological rules by adding some extra ü´s looks like a linguistic fashion to me. Something fancy, something done for the sake of vanity. I wonder if they really pronounced it that way.

 

may it means: can you see how hard to pronounce even your adjectives! can you see how much effort i spend to say these! how huch value a give you! i do the hardest things for you, everbody can do the easiest ones!

 

asaletlü, rütbetlü, meveddetlü...

Sultan Abdülaziz´in ABD Başkanına gönderdiği mektup

http://www.umich.edu/~turkish/links/manuscripts/letter/letter.htm

Abla liked this message
11.       si++
3785 posts
 25 Jun 2012 Mon 12:41 pm

There are some parallels between -li and -le- suffix:

 

ara-lı ara-la-mak

ayar-lı ayar-la-mak

bağ-lı bağ-la-mak

belir-li belir-le-mek

bel-li bel-le-mek

bes-li bes-le-mek

cila-lı cila-la-mak

demir-li demir-le-mek

düzen-li düzen-le-mek

engel-li engel-le-mek

ek-li ek-le-mek

eş-li eş-le-mek

eyer-li eyer-le-mek

giz-li giz-le-mek

ilik-li ilik-le-mek

kalay-lı kalay-la-mak

kat-lı kat-la-mak

kap-lı kap-la-mak

kenet-li kenet-le-mek

kilit-li kilit-le-mek

oran-lı oran-la-mak

sak-lı sak-la-mak

su-lu su-la-mak

süs-lü süs-le-mek

şeker-li şeker-le-mek

tuz-lu tuz-la-mak

yağ-lı yağ-la-mak

yük-lü yük-le-mek

 

* Maybe (just a probability) -la- = -li + -a- which is found in

oyun oyn-a-mak

boş boş-a-mak

dil dil-e-mek

tür tür-e-mek

ad (at) ad-a-mak and at-a-mak

yaş yaş-a-mak

kan kan-a-mak

kap kap-a-mak

uz uz-a-mak

beniz benz-e-mek

don don-a-mak

bez bez-e-mek

toz toz-a-mak

kın kın-a-mak

etc.

 

 

12.       Abla
3648 posts
 25 Jun 2012 Mon 01:40 pm

Thinking about derivation always gives a good headache because it is basically random. The same suffix doesn´t give the same meaning always, you can´t sum the meaning of the word from its constituents. The only thing you can usually see is the part of speech it represents.

 

Productive derivational suffixes are easier, though. Such as -li. I have understood but I am not sure that it attaches to just about any noun and in a certain context the result is always in place and the meaning can be understood even though you never heard the word before. It´s like something between derivation and inflection.

13.       si++
3785 posts
 25 Jun 2012 Mon 02:34 pm

 

Quoting Abla

Thinking about derivation always gives a good headache because it is basically random. The same suffix doesn´t give the same meaning always, you can´t sum the meaning of the word from its constituents. The only thing you can usually see is the part of speech it represents.

 

Productive derivational suffixes are easier, though. Such as -li. I have understood but I am not sure that it attaches to just about any noun and in a certain context the result is always in place and the meaning can be understood even though you never heard the word before. It´s like something between derivation and inflection.

 

Yes -li suffix is just like a inflectional one. Another similar suffix is -lik in that regard.

14.       Abla
3648 posts
 25 Jun 2012 Mon 09:05 pm

In the grammar book which I read now four derivational suffixes are mentioned as productive:

 

1. N > N -li

2. N > N -lik

3. N > N -siz

4.a) V > N -(y)ici

b) N > N -ci

 

It seems that productive derivators are quite specific in meaning. You could almost translate them into English.

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