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Turkish Grammar I want to share with other learners
1.       Henry
2604 posts
 24 Nov 2012 Sat 02:16 pm

I hope to share some of what I have learnt on a recent intermediate level Turkish course.

Lesson 1

Turks have several ways of saying thanks to / because of XXXXX, then result.

One positive version, where there is an outcome that was wanted, uses

SAYE + personal suffix + DE

SAYE means shadow, and I think is an old Persian word. In the old days in a very hot climate, if something gave you shade, it was beneficial, as you wouldn´t be so hot. So if someone blocked the sun so you could sit in the shadow you would be thankful.

So the logic is

saye (shadow) + m/n/si/miz/niz/leri (of somebody/thing) + de (in the)

thanks for this are given

Examples

Benim sayemde iş sahıbı oldun. You have a job, thanks to me.

Senin sayende Türkçem daha iyi oldu. Thanks to you, my Turkish is better.

Babamın sayesinde ev sahibi oldum. I own a house, thanks to my father.

Bizim sayemizde şirket kurdu. Thanks to us, the company was established.

Sizin sayenizde sağlığıma kavuştum. Thanks to you (plural or formal) I have succeeded in getting my health back.

Onların sayelerinde her şeyi daha iyi anladım. Thanks to them, I understand everything better.

One negative version, where the outcome wasn´t wanted or desired, uses

YÜZ + personal suffix + DEN

Examples

Benim yüzümden işine geç kaldın, özür dilerim.

Thanks to me/because of me, you were late to work, I apologise.

Senin yüzünden eve sarhoş geldim.

Thanks to you/because of you, I came home drunk.

Kumar yüzünden evini, arabasını sattı.

Thanks to gambling/because of gambling, he sold his house and car.

Bizim yüzümüzden uykusuz kaldın.

Thanks to us/because of us, you remained sleepless.

Sizin yüzünüzden randevuma geç kalacağım.

Thanks to you/because of you, I will be late for my appointment.

Onların yüzünden öğretmenimiz bize de kızdı.

Thanks to them/because of them, our teacher is also angry at us.

 



Edited (11/24/2012) by Henry [Tunci made me think a bit more about what I wrote]

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2.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 24 Nov 2012 Sat 02:34 pm

The interesting thing is nobody knows that "saye" means shadow in Turkey. I guess it is a Farsi word. We say gölge instead of it. But we still use "sayesinde"



Edited (11/24/2012) by gokuyum
Edited (11/24/2012) by gokuyum

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3.       tunci
7149 posts
 24 Nov 2012 Sat 02:36 pm

 

Quoting Henry

I

The negative version, where the outcome wasn´t wanted or desired, uses

YÜZ + personal suffix + DEN

Examples

Benim yüzümden işine geç kaldın, özür dilerim. Thanks to me, you were late to work, I apologise.

Senin yüzünden eve sarhoş geldim. Thanks to you, I came home drunk.

Kumar yüzünden evini, arabasını sattı. Thanks to gambling, he sold his house and car.

Bizim yüzümüzden uykusuz kaldın. Thanks to us, you remained sleepless.

Sizin yüzünüzden randevuma geç kalacağım. Thanks to you, I will be late for my appointment.

Onların yüzünden öğretmenimiz bize de kızdı. Thanks to them, our teacher is also angry at us.

 

 

Good lesson ,  Henry.  But the English translation of the "yüzünden" part sounded bit weird to me, Does it sound good such sentence in English to you ?

Thanks to you , I will be late for my appointment.

Don´t you think it should be like ;

Because of you , I will be late for my appointement..


you know better in English ,but it just sounds weird to my ears.

==========================================

Unless, it is said in a sarcastic manner, like , I will be late because of you, thanks for that !!

 



Edited (11/24/2012) by tunci

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4.       Henry
2604 posts
 24 Nov 2012 Sat 02:46 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

Good lesson ,  Henry.  But the English translation of the "yüzünden" part sounded bit weird to me, Does it sound good such sentence in English to you ?

Thanks to you , I will be late for my appointment.

Don´t you think it should be like ;

Because of you , I will be late for my appointement..


you know better in English ,but it just sounds weird to my ears.

==========================================

Unless, it is said in a sarcastic manner, like , I will be late because of you, thanks for that !!

 

 

Haklısın Tunci Smile, it doesn´t feel right unless said sarcastically. It would be better to say because of XXXX, or no thanks to XXXX. The negative meaning is more obvious with these words.

 

 

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5.       Abla
3647 posts
 25 Nov 2012 Sun 09:59 am

Thanks, Henry. Interestingly, in my language the metaphoric use of ´shadow´ is always something negative. Too little sun here.

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6.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 25 Nov 2012 Sun 10:12 am

 

Quoting Abla

Thanks, Henry. Interestingly, in my language the metaphoric use of ´shadow´ is always something negative. Too little sun here.

 I think it generally has a positive meaning in Turkish. Only negative use of it which I remember is the very popular saying of philosopher Diogenes of Sinope. We really like this saying.

 

Gölge etme başka ihsan istemem.

Don´t make a shadow, I don´t want any favor from you other than this.

 

It is believed that Alexander had asked Diogenes if he had wanted any favor from him. Diogenes´ answer was this.

 

7.       nemanjasrb
507 posts
 22 Dec 2012 Sat 11:26 pm

This lesson was excellent,thank you so much? Will be maybe something else?
 

8.       Henry
2604 posts
 22 Dec 2012 Sat 11:58 pm

 

Quoting nemanjasrb

This lesson was excellent,thank you so much? Will be maybe something else?
 

Yes, I plan to add more lessons. I have chatted with the site admin. for permission to add lessons to the ´Learn Turkish´ section, so it will be easier to find them later. This will happen once he is not as busy with work projects. I look forward to adding lessons with a ´learner´s perspective´.

I hope to pass on what I have learned in intermediate level lessons and from my Turkish friends. As there are already a lot of basic Turkish grammar lessons available here, I will try to concentrate more on intermediate level information, like the lesson I posted here.

 

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9.       Adam25
369 posts
 23 Dec 2012 Sun 07:24 pm

 

Quoting Henry

 

 

Haklısın Tunci Smile, it doesn´t feel right unless said sarcastically. It would be better to say because of XXXX, or no thanks to XXXX. The negative meaning is more obvious with these words.

 

 

 

I don´t think saying ´no thanks to´ carries the same meaning.  You can´t say ´no thanks to you I missed my appointment´ but you would say ´I was in time for my appointment - no thanks to you´ - meaning ´despite what you did to hinder me, I got there in time´.  

Also, certainly in the UK, ´thanks to you´ is commonly used, sarcastically if the outcome is bad and genuinely if the outcome is good, eg ´Thanks to you, I met the girl of my dreams´.

 

Henry liked this message
10.       Henry
2604 posts
 24 Dec 2012 Mon 12:36 am

 

Quoting Adam25

I don´t think saying ´no thanks to´ carries the same meaning.  You can´t say ´no thanks to you I missed my appointment´ but you would say ´I was in time for my appointment - no thanks to you´ - meaning ´despite what you did to hinder me, I got there in time´.  

Also, certainly in the UK, ´thanks to you´ is commonly used, sarcastically if the outcome is bad and genuinely if the outcome is good, eg ´Thanks to you, I met the girl of my dreams´.

I agree the meaning is not the same. In spoken English, the intonation and word stress can indicate sarcasm, but with written English, it is harder to spot. In Australia "thanks to you" would be interpreted as negative or sarcastic if the outcome was not desirable.

I have no work, thanks to you (because of you, because of what you did)

Senin yüzünden işim yok 

I remember someone saying jokingly that there should be a "sarcastica" font for English, so that when you see this font used, you know this is said sarcastically. 

 

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