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Grammar confusion. Need help.
1.       raydin
135 posts
 23 May 2014 Fri 08:15 am

So this always catches me, I´m never to sure on when to use which one.

 

Examples:

 

onu gormeni istiyorum

 

why not?

 

onu gorduğunu istiyorum

 

if gormeni and gorduğunu give the expression of "that" you see, when do I use either one?

 

also

Gün boyunca okuması   çok önemlidir.

 

why not?

 

Gun boyunca okuduğunu cok onemlidir

 

also geldiğini biliyorlar mı?

why not

gelmeni biliyorlar mı?

 

can someone explain to me when you use the grammar  "okumasi" and "okudugunu" in a sentence, or for that fact all of them. I asked a turkish friend one time and all she could answer me was "well thats just the way it is" but I need some clarification ):

 

2.       tunci
7149 posts
 23 May 2014 Fri 10:55 am

onu gormeni istiyorum

 

why not?

 

onu gorduğunu istiyorum

 

if gormeni and gorduğunu give the expression of "that" you see, when do I use either one?

 

·       In the first sentence, it does not give the expression of “that”. It is a compound sentence with possessive construction.

 

Literally :

 

Onu        görme  + n -à Your seeing him/her

him/her  seeing   your

 

Onu  görmeni istiyorum. --à I want/I’d like  your seeing him/her [ In other words, I want/I’d like you to see him/her]

 

Other examples :

 

- Türkçe’yi  öğrenmeni  istiyorum. -à I want your learning Turkish [ In other words, I want you to learn Turkish]

 

- Buraya gelmesini  istiyorum. -à I want his/her coming here. [ In other words, I want/I’d like him/her coming here]

 

 

* In the second sentence, it is –dIk is a participle, but it does not sound correct using it with the verb “istemek”.

 

     Therefore when you use “istemek” , in other words when you like/want someone to do  something, use possessive construction.

-        Orayı gitmeni istiyorum. -àI want you to go there [ I want your going there ]

-        Oraya gitmeni istedim.  -à I wanted you to go there. [ I wanted your going there]

 

Negative form

 

Oraya gitmeni istemiyorum. -à I don’t want you go there. [ I don´t want your going there]

 

Oraya gitmeni istemedim /istemiyordum. -à I didn’t want you to go there. [ I didn´t want your going there]




Edited (5/23/2014) by tunci

Moha-ios, GulBahar and raydin liked this message
3.       raydin
135 posts
 23 May 2014 Fri 11:12 am

 

Quoting tunci

onu gormeni istiyorum

 

why not?

 

onu gorduğunu istiyorum

 

if gormeni and gorduğunu give the expression of "that" you see, when do I use either one?

 

·       In the first sentence, it does not give the expression of “that”. It is a compound sentence with possessive construction.

 

Literally :

 

Onu        görme  + n -à Your seeing him/her

him/her  seeing   your

 

Onu  görmeni istiyorum. --à I want/I’d like  your seeing him/her [ In other words, I want/I’d like you to see him/her]

 

Other examples :

 

- Türkçe’yi  öğrenmeni  istiyorum. -à I want your learning Turkish [ In other words, I want you to learn Turkish]

 

- Buraya gelmesini  istiyorum. -à I want his/her coming here. [ In other words, I want/I’d like him/her coming here]

 

 

* In the second sentence, it is –dIk is a participle, but it does not sound correct using it with the verb “istemek”.

 

     Therefore when you use “istemek” , in other words when you like/want someone to do  something, use possessive construction.

-        Orayı gitmeni istiyorum. -àI want you to go there [ I want your going there ]

-        Oraya gitmeni istedim.  -à I wanted you to go there. [ I wanted your going there]

 

Negative form

 

Oraya gitmeni istemiyorum. -à I don’t want you go there. [ I don´t want your going there]

 

Oraya gitmeni istemedim /istemiyordum. -à I didn’t want you to go there. [ I didn´t want your going there]


 

Thanks for the clarification so how and when do I use the DIK particle?

 

 

4.       tunci
7149 posts
 23 May 2014 Fri 11:49 am

 

-dIk + possessive  comes onto verb stems and makes them an object of  the sentence.

 ye + dik + i  ---> his/her eating /ate an apple


[Onun] Elma yediğini biliyorum.---> I know that he/she eats / ate  an apple.

 

What I know ?  -à He/She eats/ate an apple.

Elma yediğini -à Object

Biliyorum -à predicate

 

Literal translation would be -à I know his/her eating/ate an apple.

 

 

Your examples are “Noun Sentences” which does not take an actual action [predicate] instead , they take a statement [ çok önemlidir ]

 

      dIk + possessive [ okuma + s + ı ] 

 

Gün boyunca okuması çok  önemlidir. -à His/her reading during the day is important [ In other words, “ it is important him/her to read during the day]

 

What is important ? --à Gün boyunca okuması [ his /her reading during the day ]

 

 

 

Gün boyunca okuduğunu çok  önemlidir. -à This doesn’t make sense, because

 

* -duk  here makes the verb an adjective, so as an adjectival function it is lacking a noun to describe.

okuduğu  kitap -à the book which he reads /read  -à it describes the book.

 

 

So, we can fix it  by adding a noun after okuduğu

 

Gün boyu okuduğu kitap çok önemlidir.

 

* If you mean to say his/her reading throughout the day, is important ” then, we make it “verbal noun ” by adding possessive on verb.

okuma + sı -à his/her reading

 

Gün boyunca okuması çok önemlidir. -à His/her reading throughout the day, is important. [ In other words, “ It is important for him/her to read throughout the day]

 

 

 



Edited (5/23/2014) by tunci

Moha-ios and raydin liked this message
5.       raydin
135 posts
 23 May 2014 Fri 12:30 pm

ahh I see noww

Thanks for your help!

6.       mehmet111
195 posts
 23 May 2014 Fri 04:15 pm


 

 

http://www.turkishclass.com/turkish_lesson_319 -me/-ma

If one wants to make any given verb a noun, one should use -me/-ma.

 

One should add possessive suffix and accusative suffix to the verbal noun suffix if one wants to mean "to want someone to do something". This pattern tends to future. The pattern "-dik" tends to present time or past time.

 

Onu görmeni istiyorum.

görmeni

görmek (to see)

gör-

gör+me(noun maker)--->görme (seeing)

gör+me+n(possessive of 2nd singular)--->görmen (pure: your seeing)

gör+me+n+i(accusative)------------------>görmeni (pure: your seeing (acc.))

onu görmeni (pure: your seeing it)

onu görmeni istiyorum (pure: I want your seeing it) normally: I want you to see it.

 

"I" is the subject, "want" is the predicate and "your seeing it" is the definite object here.

 

gör+me(negation)+mek(infinitive)----------->görmemek (not to see)

gör+me(negation)

gör+me(negation)+me(noun maker)---------->görmeme (pure: not seeing)

gör+me(negation)+me(noun maker)+n(possessive of 2nd singular)+i(accusative suffix)--->görmemeni

Onu görmemeni istiyorum. (I want you not to see it.) (purely: I want your not seeing it.)

"not seeing it"

"your not seeing it" is the definite object.

Onu görmeni istemiyorum. (I don´t want you to see it.) (purely: I don´t want your seeing it.)

Gün boyunca okuması çok önemlidir. (It is very  important that he reads during a day.)
oku+mak(infinitive)--------------------->okumak (to read)
oku+-
oku+ma(noun maker)---------------------------------->okuma (reading)
oku+ma(noun maker)+ı(possessive of 3rd sing.)--->okuması (pure: his reading)
okuması çok önemli (it is very important that he reads (pure: his reading is very important))
... boyunca (during ...)
gün (day)
gün boyunca okuması (pure: his reading during a day)
Adding generalization / meaning of general rule: -dir
http://www.turkishclass.com/turkish_lesson_358 (-dir for official genre)
http://www.turkishclass.com/turkish_lesson_359 (-dir for guess)
http://www.turkishclass.com/turkish_lesson_360 (-dir for generalization)

Sorry, I´m at school at the moment and I should go on studying for the final exams, otherwise I would explain in more details.



Edited (5/23/2014) by mehmet111

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