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Grammatical puzzle -- for me at least :)
1.       trip
297 posts
 11 Jul 2014 Fri 12:08 pm

"Kim anlamış ki sen anlayasın böyle?"

Merhaba! I found this line in a song, and from context, I think it means something like: "Who thought that your understanding would be like this?" But please correct me, and please explain what is going on here grammatically. 

Is "anlamış" the indefinite past? And what is "anlayasın"? I cannot figure out this ending. It´s not a possessive, is it? I see "sen" but not "senin." I´m stuck. İmdat!

Çok teşekkür ederim! 

2.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 11 Jul 2014 Fri 01:58 pm

 

Quoting trip

"Kim anlamış ki sen anlayasın böyle?"

Merhaba! I found this line in a song, and from context, I think it means something like: "Who thought that your understanding would be like this?" But please correct me, and please explain what is going on here grammatically. 

Is "anlamış" the indefinite past? And what is "anlayasın"? I cannot figure out this ending. It´s not a possessive, is it? I see "sen" but not "senin." I´m stuck. İmdat!

Çok teşekkür ederim! 

That sentence means "Nobody has understood it, how can you understand it?"

Another translation would be like this: "Who has ever understood it, yet you think you understand it?"

 

anlayasın is the second person of the subjunctive mood  (istek kipi)

http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/submood.htm

 



Edited (7/11/2014) by gokuyum

trip liked this message
3.       trip
297 posts
 13 Jul 2014 Sun 12:38 pm

Quote: gokuyum

anlayasın is the second person of the subjunctive mood  (istek kipi)

This is all very confusing to me, because I think I really know this construction only in the form of "-eyim" and "-elim." Or "let me" and "let us." If I´m understanding you correctly, this is what my old Turkish grammar book calls the "present optative-subjective verb form." I have to admit I didn´t pay close attention to this lesson because it said that the first person singular and first person plural (which I already knew from a Turkish Class lesson on the imperative) were used, but that other forms were not so much. (For instance, in third person, "anlasın" -- or the third person imperative -- would be used more, yes?) So, I was very familiar with "-eyim" and "-elim," but I didn´t worry about "-esin." But that´s where that extra "a" and the buffer y come from, yes? This was what I was not recognizing. So the construction is "anlaya-" (which is the gerundive, not the verb root) plus "-sın." And this "present optative-subjective verb form" expresses "may" or "might." So my puzzling sentence becomes something like "Who understood it that you might (or should) understand it?" In a more literal form, I mean. Your translations make much more sense, gokuyum.

Türkçe çok zor! See how hard I have to think about all this! And I still may be confused.

Yardımın için teşekkür ederim. 

gokuyum liked this message
4.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 13 Jul 2014 Sun 04:45 pm

 

Quoting trip

 

This is all very confusing to me, because I think I really know this construction only in the form of "-eyim" and "-elim." Or "let me" and "let us." If I´m understanding you correctly, this is what my old Turkish grammar book calls the "present optative-subjective verb form." I have to admit I didn´t pay close attention to this lesson because it said that the first person singular and first person plural (which I already knew from a Turkish Class lesson on the imperative) were used, but that other forms were not so much. (For instance, in third person, "anlasın" -- or the third person imperative -- would be used more, yes?) So, I was very familiar with "-eyim" and "-elim," but I didn´t worry about "-esin." But that´s where that extra "a" and the buffer y come from, yes? This was what I was not recognizing. So the construction is "anlaya-" (which is the gerundive, not the verb root) plus "-sın." And this "present optative-subjective verb form" expresses "may" or "might." So my puzzling sentence becomes something like "Who understood it that you might (or should) understand it?" In a more literal form, I mean. Your translations make much more sense, gokuyum.

Türkçe çok zor! See how hard I have to think about all this! And I still may be confused.

Yardımın için teşekkür ederim. 

 

As you say we dont use this subjunction mood a lot but there are some expressions like this one where we use it.

anla-y-ayım

anla-y-asın

anla-y-a

anla-y-alım

anla-y-asınız

anla-y-alar



Edited (7/13/2014) by gokuyum
Edited (7/13/2014) by gokuyum

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