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Question about grammar
(11 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
[1] 2
1.       Vanne
4 posts
 18 Oct 2014 Sat 11:23 pm

herkes merhaba, i´m french so sorry of i do mistakes. I have a question

i would like to know what is "´na" in this sentence:

"Cumhuriyet Caddesi Galatasaray Hamamı´na gidiyor mu?

Does it mean that the republic avenue lead to galatasaray hamam ?

thank you very much if you´re able to help me 

2.       Moha-ios
93 posts
 19 Oct 2014 Sun 12:30 am

"N" its buffer letter "a" ="to" 

u can see this link

 

http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/buffer02.htm

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3.       tunci
7145 posts
 19 Oct 2014 Sun 12:38 am

 

Quoting Vanne

herkes merhaba, i´m french so sorry of i do mistakes. I have a question

i would like to know what is "´na" in this sentence:

"Cumhuriyet Caddesi Galatasaray Hamamı´na gidiyor mu?

Does it mean that does the republic avenue lead to galatasaray hamam ?

thank you very much if you´re able to help me 

 

Yes, it means as you translated. 

 

 Galatasaray Hamamı´n

 to Galatasaray Hamam

 

"n" functions as a buffer letter. 

"a" is a dative case letter, it corresponds with "to" in English .




 

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4.       Vanne
4 posts
 19 Oct 2014 Sun 12:40 am

Thank you both

I thought the buffer letter for this case was the "y". So thank you again for your explanations

5.       vineyards
1954 posts
 20 Oct 2014 Mon 12:19 am

Turkish is an agglutinative language and this is a mind-boggling point for many learners. You have to get used to forming your sentences with suffixes instead of words and prepositions. Even after years of learning, foreigners tend to make mistakes. I think both because it is a bit difficult to master and because the listener usually figures what the speaker means or wants to say anyway.

A typical native speaker doesn´t know the difference between -na and -ya but he/she can always pick the right one. Perhaps learning by exposure is a better method than trying to master the morphological rules.  Nonetheless, as a hint

I would say, if the attributive noun in a compound noun is genitive it needs -na, -ne etc in its accusative form. If not -ye, ya etc are used. Some proper nouns are obtained from such compound nouns and they follow the same underlying morphological rules:

For example:

Example 1: Demir kapıya 

Example 2: Kuşadası´na. (Kuş adası is based on a noun compliment)

 

Vanne liked this message
6.       Vanne
4 posts
 20 Oct 2014 Mon 03:53 pm

Thank you, it´s clearer for me vineyards 

7.       vineyards
1954 posts
 22 Oct 2014 Wed 12:18 am

You are welcome. Good luck with your studies.

Vanne liked this message
8.       ManisaTurkish
1 posts
 22 Oct 2014 Wed 08:09 am

>>For example:

>>Example 1: Demir kapıya  (Kapı ıs a bare noun so use buffer -y-)

You could say: Evimizin demir kapısına (kapı-sı-na) - To our house´s iron door.  Buffer letter -n- is used because kapısi - its door is already suffixed.

>>Example 2: Kuşadası´na. (Kuşada-sı  is already (extended) suffixed, so use buffer -n- )

The Rule is:

The -N buffer letter is used with already extended noun roots for Direct Object and Motion Toward Conditions.

(A) The Direct Object Pointer (accusative) suffix -i, -ı, -u, -ü takes buffer letter -n to become -ni, -nı, -nu, -nü when added to an already extended word which ends in a vowel.

(B) The Motion Toward Pointer (dative) suffix -a, -e takes buffer letter -n to become -na, -ne when added to an extended noun which ends in a vowel.

(C) The noun is first extended with the Possessive Pronuoun -ı -i -u -ü or -sı- si -su -sü (for root word ending in vowel) his/ her its and -leri or -ları their. The change of buffer letter -Y- to -N- enables the listener to discern that the word is already extended by previous suffixes.

It is all explained on this page:

See http://www.manisaturkish.com/buffer02.htm

Vanne liked this message
9.       tunci
7145 posts
 25 Oct 2014 Sat 12:12 am

 

"n" is used in the following  cases ;

 

1When a pronoun takes a case ending ;

 

O  [he , she ,it]  + n  +   a   ------>  Ona   --->  to him/ to her / to it

 

 " O"  is a personal pronoun.

 

Bu ---->  this 

Bu + n  + u ---> Here "bu" takes accusative marking.

 

Bunu   biliyorum  ---->  I know this. 

" Bu" is demonstrative  pronoun.

 

1*It is not only used for pronouns [ it is also used in compound structures after the possessive suffix]

2*. It does not work with question pronouns [ Soru Zamirleri] , such as "Nere"

 

Nere = where 

Nere + y + e  ---->  to where 

 

Nereye  baksam hep seni hatırlıyorum. ----> Whereever I look, I remember you. [ Everwhere I look reminds me of you ]"

=======================================

 

2.  When the compounds takes case marking , it comes between the possessive marking and case marking.

 

Ali´nin  kitabı --> Ali´s book  

            kitap + ı [possesive marking which indicates that the book is possessed by Ali]

 

Ali´nin  kitabı + n + ı [ accusative marking] 

 

Ali´nin kitabını  aldım. ----> I took Ali´s book.

 

========================================

 

3.  It comes before the genitive marking , if  the word ends with a vowel.

 

Od---> room ---> this word ends with a vowel "a"

 

If we want to say  " the room´s door" [ the door of the room] we need to put the genitive marking which is " ın "  and we buffer with  " n"  in between them.

 

Oda + n ın  --->  The door´s 

 

Odanın  kapısı --->  The room´s door [ The door of the room].

 

===========================================

 

4. When the word takes case ending after "ki" relative pronoun ;

 

Masa = table

 

Masada  = on the table 

 

Masada + ki   =  the one [that is] on the table 

 

Masada + ki +  n + [accusative case ending] 

 

Masadakini  ver  ---> Give [me] the one [that] is on the table.

 

 ==================================

 

 Exp :

Oturma  odası [ living room] is a compound structure,  " the room of  living "

 

After the possessive marking "ı" , the locative case marking " da" [in] comes and we need " n " to combine them. 

 

Oturma  odası + n + da ==> In [the] living room [ in the room of  living]

 

 



Edited (10/25/2014) by tunci

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10.       tunci
7145 posts
 25 Oct 2014 Sat 12:31 am

 

Quoting ManisaTurkish

From ManisaTurkish website --->

 

NOTE: Buffer Letter -N- is ALWAYS used with the Ownership Condition.
The suffix -nin/-nın/-nun/-nün is used when affixed root words which end in a vowel.
e.g. kedinin [kedi+nin] of the cat, the cat´s.

 

I´d like to point out  one exception to this rule which hasn´t  mentioned on ManisaTurkish website,

 

A word "su" does NOT obey that rule,

 

Su + y + un --> of the water

Suyun hızı ---> the speed of the water

Suyun tadı ---> the taste of the water

------------------

So, the word "su" takes "y" instead of "n" in that particular condition.

 

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