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Still confused with Accusative Case
1.       Mehmet Awwal
2 posts
 27 Nov 2014 Thu 11:38 am

Hi, i would like to ask about Turkish Language. 

 

Quote:

Pazardan domates aldık. (We bought "tomatoes" from the market place.)

Domatesi pazardan aldık. (We bought the tomatoes "from the market place".)

*taken from Mehmet 111 lesson

I know that order of sentence in Turkish is Subject+Object+Predicate. At the first example domates is an object. why the word domates doesn´t use accusative case? Then, at the second example domates is in position subject. Why it uses accusative case?

Thanks



Edited (11/28/2014) by Mehmet Awwal

2.       denizli
961 posts
 27 Nov 2014 Thu 12:36 pm

This is because in the first example, tomatoes is indefinite. You don’t use Accusative for indefinite objects. In some cases Accusative is like ´the´.

 

Actually in both sentences, domates is the object. ´We´ is the subject in both. There is some flexibility in the order of Turkish sentences.



Edited (11/27/2014) by denizli
Edited (11/27/2014) by denizli

Moha-ios and tunci liked this message
3.       Mehmet Awwal
2 posts
 28 Nov 2014 Fri 12:34 am

Okay, thanks. But i´m not native English, so i don´t know what does definite and indefinte means. Could you explain more to me? 

4.       denizli
961 posts
 28 Nov 2014 Fri 01:31 am

Definite is something specific and we know what it is. For example I told you I was going to buy a specific set of tires, then I buy those tires:

Lastikleri aldım. I bought the tires. Definite, add the ´i´.

On the other hand, if I buy a set of tires and it was never discussed. You ask what I did today:

Lastikler aldım. I bought tires. Indefinite, leave off the ´i´.

5.       tunci
7149 posts
 29 Nov 2014 Sat 10:41 pm

 

Quoting denizli

Definite is something specific and we know what it is. For example I told you I was going to buy a specific set of tires, then I buy those tires:

Lastikleri aldım. I bought the tires. Definite, add the ´i´.

On the other hand, if I buy a set of tires and it was never discussed. You ask what I did today:

Lastikler aldım. I bought tires. Indefinite, leave off the ´i´.

 

We would normally say it in singular form ---> Lastik aldım.  

Or if we want to say the number of lastik then we add numbers in front of it ---> 

4 tane lastik aldım.

 

denizli liked this message
6.       denizli
961 posts
 01 Dec 2014 Mon 01:28 am

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

We would normally say it in singular form ---> Lastik aldım.  

Or if we want to say the number of lastik then we add numbers in front of it ---> 

4 tane lastik aldım.

 

 

Then I think I´m still a little stuck on plural. I understand 4 tane lastik aldım since we specified 4 so we don´t add ler.

But why is it Lastik aldım when it is more than one?

7.       Abla
3647 posts
 01 Dec 2014 Mon 10:53 am

Quote: I wrote this earlier in a similar thread...

There is a special characteristic for Turkish nouns, transnumeral category or numerus indefinitus. kitap okumak may mean one book or many, and if you use plural marking here it has an individualizing function.

 

It is a good lesson for those who against all odds believe in the compatibility of grammatical categories in different languages.

 

Why lastik aldım if it is more than one?

trip liked this message
8.       trip
297 posts
 01 Dec 2014 Mon 11:17 am

Quote: Abla

kitap okumak may mean one book or many, and if you use plural marking here it has an individualizing function.

 

Abla, I´m not sure I understand this exactly. Can you please explain? Does this mean that if you use the plural, it signals that you are talking about specific books? And if this is so, does that mean you must use the accusative in such a case?

I know the rule about using a singular noun where, in English, we would use a plural. But then I see Turkish speakers use plurals anyway. I guess that is because they are "individualizing."

Maybe a couple of examples would help me.

Teşekkürler!



Edited (12/1/2014) by trip

9.       Abla
3647 posts
 01 Dec 2014 Mon 12:36 pm

They are minor differences and it is best to ask a native expert to explain them. tunci? scalpel?

 

With singular, I think the attention is more in the action than the object. Like...

 

                      Çiçek aldım. > ´I made some shopping  -  flowers.´

 

Plural is more complicated. Certainly it is the marked category here, i.e. adding LAR adds something to the most obvious meaning:

 

                      Çiçekler aldım sana seversin diye.

 

Definiteness it is not. At least not grammatical definiteness. What is added there then? Abundance, feeling, attention to the object? Only enlightened natives can tell. 

trip liked this message
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