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Object participle and tense
1.       trip
297 posts
 21 Nov 2015 Sat 10:25 am

Merhabalar! After a long absence, I am back with a grammar question. I am trying to translate an English-language Bar覺 Manço song into Turkish.

This line is giving me trouble:

Years ago I dreamt of the life I´d lead 

Here is my attempt to translate it into Turkish:

Y覺llar önce süreceim hayat覺 hayal ettim

My question is whether "süreceim" is correct here, because I´m not really trying to express future tense but rather a conditional future. Not "that I will lead," but "that I would lead." Is there some other way to do that? Çok teekkürler!

P.S. -- And would it be better to say "hayal ederdim"? "I used to dream"?



denizli liked this message
2.       cymanteg
19 posts
 25 Nov 2015 Wed 02:01 pm

"Süreceim hayat覺" is correct. But it´s better to use "hayal ederdim" rather than "hayal ettim".

So the sentence becomes "Y覺llar önce süreceim hayat覺 hayal ederdim" which translates to "Years ago I dreamt of life that I´d lead".

Rica ederim! Smile

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3.       trip
297 posts
 01 Dec 2015 Tue 11:12 am

Thank you again, cymanteg! This is very useful!

4.       trip
297 posts
 02 Dec 2015 Wed 09:59 am

Tekrar merhabalar! Here is my attempt at the full song, which is called "Lory." It originally came out in 1968, I think. When I started on this song, I thought it would be fairly straightforward to translate, but then I realized that the tenses are really quite complicated. So, you will have to correct me where I have gone wrong. Çok teekkürler!

Lory

Years ago I dreamt of the life I´d lead -- Y覺llar önce süreceim hayat覺 hayal ederdim
Years ago I thought of the things I´d do -- Y覺llar önce yapaca覺m eyleri düünürdüm
Years ago I dreamt of the girl I´d love -- Y覺llar önce seveceim k覺z覺 hayal ederdim
When I grew older -- Erginletiimde
To be a young man -- Genç adam olduumda
To be a grown man -- Yetimi adam olduumda
To take my place in the world -- Dünyada yerimi bulduumda
Lory Lory, Lory Lory, Lory Lory, -- Lory Lory, Lory Lory, Lory Lory,
Lory Lory Ohhh ... -- Lory Lory Ohhh ...

 
I grew up went to work and left my dreams -- Büyüyüp ie gidip hayallerimi b覺raktim
I grew up found that life has hidden sides -- Büyüyüp hayat覺n gizli taraflar覺 olduunu buldum
I grew up tested things with my own hands -- Büyüyüp kendi ellerimle eyler denedim
Then I met a young girl -- Sonra genç bir k覺zla tan覺t覺m 
To share my story -- Benim hikayemi paylaacak bir k覺z
To love and marry -- Seveceim ve kar覺 alaca覺m bir k覺z
And proudly carry to my home -- Evime iftiharla ta覺yaca覺m bir k覺z
Lory Lory, Lory Lory, Lory Lory, -- Lory Lory, Lory Lory, Lory Lory,
Lory Lory Ohhh ... -- Lory Lory Ohhh ...


As years passed I learned that love doesn´t last -- Y覺llar gecerek ben ak覺n sürmedügünü örendim

As years passed I learned life´s not what it seems -- Y覺llar gecerek ben hayat覺n göründüü gibi olmaduunu örendim

As years passed I have gone back to my dreams -- Y覺llar gecerek ben hayallerime geri döndüm

But my dreams grew sadder -- Ama hayallerim daha kasvetli oldu

And now I feel old -- imdi de kendimi yal覺 hissediyorum

My heart has grown cold -- Kalbim souk oldu

And stories told of my life -- Ve hayat覺m hakk覺nda anlatan hikayeler

Lory Lory, Lory Lory, Lory Lory, -- Lory Lory, Lory Lory, Lory Lory,
Lory Lory Ohhh ... -- Lory Lory Ohhh ...


Years ago I had my life before me -- Y覺llar önce hayatim önümdeydi

Years ago I thought luck would be with me -- Y覺llar önce ans覺n benimle olaca覺 sand覺m

Years ago I was sure I could be happy -- Y覺llar önce benim mutlu olabilireceime inand覺m

When I grew older -- Erginletiimde
To be a young man -- Genç adam olduumda
To be a grown man -- Yetimi adam olduumda
to take my place in the world -- Dünyada yerimi bulduumuda
Lory Lory, Lory Lory, Lory Lory, -- Lory Lory, Lory Lory, Lory Lory,
Lory Lory Ohhh ... -- Lory Lory Ohhh ... 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giSsyv-IyKs
Daily Motion: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xs142g_baris-manco-ve-kaygisizlar-lory-1968_music

denizli liked this message
5.       kertmeyenkele
100 posts
 02 Dec 2015 Wed 11:56 am

 

Quoting trip

Tekrar merhabalar! Here is my attempt at the full song, which is called "Lory." It originally came out in 1968, I think. When I started on this song, I thought it would be fairly straightforward to translate, but then I realized that the tenses are really quite complicated. So, you will have to correct me where I have gone wrong. Çok teekkürler!

Lory

Years ago I dreamt of the life I´d lead -- Y覺llar önce süreceim hayat覺 hayal ederdim
Years ago I thought of the things I´d do -- Y覺llar önce yapaca覺m eyleri düünürdüm
Years ago I dreamt of the girl I´d love -- Y覺llar önce seveceim k覺z覺 hayal ederdim

 instead of -erdim, -mitim sound better (to me) etmitim
When I grew older -- Erginletiimde
To be a young man -- Genç adam olduumda
To be a grown man -- Yetimi adam olduumda
To take my place in the world -- Dünyada yerimi bulduumda
Lory Lory, Lory Lory, Lory Lory, -- Lory Lory, Lory Lory, Lory Lory,
Lory Lory Ohhh ... -- Lory Lory Ohhh ...

 
I grew up went to work and left my dreams -- Büyüyüp ie gidip hayallerimi b覺raktim
I grew up found that life has hidden sides -- Büyüyüp hayat覺n gizli taraflar覺 olduunu buldum
I grew up tested things with my own hands -- Büyüyüp kendi ellerimle eyler denedim
Then I met a young girl -- Sonra genç bir k覺zla tan覺t覺m 
To share my story -- Benim hikayemi paylaacak bir k覺z
To love and marry -- Seveceim ve kar覺 alaca覺m bir k覺z
And proudly carry to my home -- Evime iftiharla ta覺yaca覺m bir k覺z

 Reverse the order of lines and you have shorter translation

hikayemi paylaacak, sevip evleneceim, evime gururla ta覺yaca覺m genç bir k覺zla tan覺t覺m
Lory Lory, Lory Lory, Lory Lory, -- Lory Lory, Lory Lory, Lory Lory,
Lory Lory Ohhh ... -- Lory Lory Ohhh ...


As years passed I learned that love doesn´t last -- Y覺llar gecerek geçtikçe (ben) ak覺n sürmediini örendim

As years passed I learned life´s not what it seems -- Y覺llar gecerek ben hayat覺n göründüü gibi olmaduunu örendim

As years passed I have gone back to my dreams -- Y覺llar gecerek ben hayallerime geri döndüm

But my dreams grew sadder -- Ama hayallerim daha kasvetli oldu

And now I feel old -- imdi de kendimi yal覺 hissediyorum

My heart has grown cold -- Kalbim souk oldu

And stories told of my life -- Ve hayat覺m hakk覺nda anlatan hikayeler

Lory Lory, Lory Lory, Lory Lory, -- Lory Lory, Lory Lory, Lory Lory,
Lory Lory Ohhh ... -- Lory Lory Ohhh ...


Years ago I had my life before me -- Y覺llar önce hayatim önümdeydi

Years ago I thought luck would be with me -- Y覺llar önce ans覺n benimle olaca覺n覺 sand覺m

Years ago I was sure I could be happy -- Y覺llar önce benim mutlu olabilireceime inand覺m

When I grew older -- Erginletiimde
To be a young man -- Genç adam olduumda
To be a grown man -- Yetimi adam olduumda
to take my place in the world -- Dünyada yerimi bulduumuda
Lory Lory, Lory Lory, Lory Lory, -- Lory Lory, Lory Lory, Lory Lory,
Lory Lory Ohhh ... -- Lory Lory Ohhh ... 

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giSsyv-IyKs
Daily Motion: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xs142g_baris-manco-ve-kaygisizlar-lory-1968_music

 

 

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6.       trip
297 posts
 04 Dec 2015 Fri 10:54 am

Çok teekkür ederim, kertmeyenkele! As you can see, I still make small, stupid mistakes. But I am very happy that I got as much right as I did. And I am studying your corrections. 

Perhaps you, or someone else, can explain this to me: The -dik participle is always an object participle. But the future participle can be either a subject participle or an object participle -- is this right? And so this works: Benim hikayemi paylaacak bir k覺z.  I have been having trouble finding a lesson that talks about this aspect of the future participle.

Tekrar teekkürler!

7.       kertmeyenkele
100 posts
 04 Dec 2015 Fri 12:47 pm

 

Quoting trip

Çok teekkür ederim, kertmeyenkele! As you can see, I still make small, stupid mistakes. But I am very happy that I got as much right as I did. And I am studying your corrections. 

Perhaps you, or someone else, can explain this to me: The -dik participle is always an object participle. But the future participle can be either a subject participle or an object participle -- is this right? And so this works: Benim hikayemi paylaacak bir k覺z.  I have been having trouble finding a lesson that talks about this aspect of the future participle.

Tekrar teekkürler!

 

Benim hikayemi paylaacak bir k覺z = A girl to share my story

Hikayemi paylaaca覺m bir k覺z = A girl I would share my story

 

There some parallels with -dik as well

Beklemedik bir anda = at an unxpected moment

Beklemediim bir anda = at a moment I didn´t expect

 

Ummad覺k ta ba yarar = An unexpected stone may hit you on head (Turkish proverb)

Ummad覺覺m ta ba覺m覺 yard覺 = A stone I didn´t expect hit me on head (a variation of the above)

 

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