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the usage of ´-ma´
1.       Tazx1
435 posts
 16 Jan 2016 Sat 06:31 pm

I get very confused when ´-ma´ is used as a light form of ´-mak´ and when ´-ma´ is meant to be ´negative´.  For example ´Yapmak´ means [to make] ... while in the light form ´Yap-ma´ means [mak-ing] ... but ´Gel-me´ means [don´t come] ...

... when I read ´dayat覺l-ma-d覺覺´  .... I tend to understand ´it being IMPOSED´ ... when actually it means ... ´it NOT being IMPOSED´.  

Can a language expert please explain the ´-ma´ construction??

Tazx1 

2.       am_1010
246 posts
 16 Jan 2016 Sat 08:39 pm

As far as I know "yapma" means "Don´t." or "Don´t do it" "don´t do"..

 

I´m not really sure though if there are other meanings for it

3.       gugukkusu
126 posts
 16 Jan 2016 Sat 10:36 pm

the suffix -me has two functions: 1. negating 2. changing verbs into nouns

The meaning is distinguished from the stress:

Gelme: Don´t come

Gelme: Coming

Gelmen laz覺m: Your coming is necessary [You need to come]

 

The same with yapma

Yapma: Don´t do it

Yapman laz覺m: Your doing is necessary [You need to do it]

 

Okuma kitab覺: Don´t read the book.

Okuma kitab覺: Reading book. (Textbook)

 

dayat-mak: to impose

dayat-覺l-mak: being imposed

dayat-覺l-d覺k: (something) being imposed, imposed one [d覺k suffix changes the verb into an adjective. Check some lessons on "s覺fat-fiiller"]

dayat-覺l-ma-d覺k: (something) not being imposed [notice -ma is used as a negator. It negates the adjective "dayat覺ld覺k"]

dayat-覺l-ma: Being imposed [Now, it is used to change the verb into a noun: the act of being imposed]

dayat覺-覺l-ma-ma: Not being imposed [see the two -ma´s with different functions, bold being the negator. It negates the noun this time]

 

Bunun dayat覺ld覺覺 bilinir: Its being imposed is known [ It is known that this is/was imposed]

 

Bunun dayat覺lmad覺覺 bilinir: Its being not imposed is known [It is known that it is not imposed]

 

Bunun dayat覺lma(s)覺 yanl覺t覺r: Its being imposed is wrong. [ It is wrong to impose this]

 

Bunun dayat覺lmamas覺 gerekir: Its being not imposed is necessary. [This shouldn´t be imposed]

 

 

Bu aç覺klaman覺n her eyi ayd覺nlatmas覺 gerekir. [ This explanation should clarify everything]

 

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4.       Tazx1
435 posts
 17 Jan 2016 Sun 04:48 pm

Say覺n gugukkusu efendi, thank you exceedingly for the trouble you took in explaining the use of ´-ma/me´ at such length.  I am very grateful to you.

Actually, being a native speaker of English ... my own Ingiliz dilbilgisi is ´NIL´ ... believe me.  But by your explanation how verbs are turned into ´Nouns´ & ´Adjectives´ ... my understanding has been facilitated.  Size tekrarca tesekkur ederim.

  Why my problem came to a ´crisis´ point ... I shall tell you:-

I came accross a sentence >> 500 y覺ll覺k iktidar覺na ramen Turk dilinin dayat覺l-ma-d覺覺 görülür <<

 

Although, by the use of ´ramen´ in the sentence, I intuitively understood from the context that ´dayat覺lmad覺覺´ SHOULD mean ... ´not imposed´ ... but I wondered why, but why, is it not [as you illustrate] ´dayat覺l-ma-ma-d覺覺´ .... which to me is the ´nagative´ form.  

I know I am a ´dim bulb´ ... not a gifted person ...

By the way ... your expert explanation aside ... but addresing the person before you ... ´Yapma´ does mean ´Making´ also!!!

 

 Tazx1

 

 

5.       JNQ
465 posts
 18 Jan 2016 Mon 10:45 am

 

Quoting Tazx1

... ´Yapma´ does mean ´Making´ also!!!

 

As mentioned in your other post, yapma is not just a light form of yapmak, it is a noun. -ma is used to create nouns from verbs.

Yapma does not simply mean making (like I´m making pie), it means THE making (noun).

Be careful not to literally translate -ing with -ma, there is a great difference in usage of -ma in Turkish. The short infinitive is used when it is object of another verb (except istemek). See here:

http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/infinitive.htm

You could see yapmamam for example which means "my not making", where you have both the -ma of the infinitive and the -ma of the negative.

 

6.       Tazx1
435 posts
 18 Jan 2016 Mon 10:16 pm

JNQ efendi, teferruatli aciklama icin cok tesekkueler.  Beni cok intresan bir ´link´ gondediniz.

Tazx1

 

JNQ liked this message
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