Welcome
Login:   Pass:     Register - Forgot Password - Resend Activation

Turkish Class Forums / Language

Language

Add reply to this discussion
The -DIk participles and an information loss
1.       diken
4 posts
 21 Jun 2016 Tue 01:18 pm

There is something I can´t get about the -DIk participles.

When we use it to make one sentence out of two sentences the object may be in any case:

  • Köpei (acc.) gezdirdim. O uyuyor. -> Gezdirdiim köpek uyuyor.
  • Bir köye (dat.) gittim. Oras覺 güzel. -> Gittiim köy güzel.
  • Rüzgârdan (abl.) ürktüm. O tuhaf tuhaf uluyordu. -> Ürktüüm rüzgâr tuhaf tuhaf uluyordu.
  • Bu evde (loc.) ya覺yorum. O üç katl覺. -> Yaad覺覺m ev üç katl覺.
  • Komumla (ins.) konutum. O gelecek. -> Konutuum komum gelecek.

 

However, what bothers me is that there is no trace of the original case endings in the resulting sentences. The information carried by the case endings seems to be lost. Thus, "the village I came to" and "the village I came from" both seem to be translated as "geldiim köy", which doesn´t make sense to me as those are kind of opposite things. What am I missing?



Edited (6/21/2016) by diken [formatting]
Edited (6/21/2016) by diken [formatting]

2.       gugukkusu
126 posts
 21 Jun 2016 Tue 03:31 pm

You are not missing anything. That´s one drawback to attaching the prepositions to the end of words, you can´t use them separately. It might seem illogical to an English or German speaker since the prepositions are used very often in those languages, but usually the meaning is inferred from the context although there are cases where ambiguity occurs as in your last example. If you want to be absolutely precise, a not so natural way to remove this ambiguity is to add words with the appropriate prepositions to the sentence like:

 

襤çinden geldiim ehir : The city inside which I come from

襤çinde yaad覺覺m ev : The house inside which I live

diken liked this message
3.       diken
4 posts
 21 Jun 2016 Tue 05:04 pm

Huge thanks for making it clear, gugukkusu. I couldn´t find this information in any grammar book I checked. I´ve got one more question. What about the postpositions that are separate words? For example, kar覺. How do I say "the people we´re fighting against" in Turkish?

4.       gugukkusu
126 posts
 21 Jun 2016 Tue 05:59 pm

Well, again you would say "Savat覺覺m覺z insanlar" because its not actually used separately, the correct form is "-e kar覺". You can, however, use certain words if they include a preposition in themselves. Some examples off the top of my head:

 

Hakk覺nda: Hakk覺nda konutuum konu The subject I´m talking about

Aleyhinde: Aleyhinde konutuum kii The person that I´m talking against

Ad覺na: Ad覺na mutlu olduum kii The person that I´m happy for

Uruna: Uruna savat覺覺m ey The thing that I´m fighting for

 Üstünde, içinde, d覺覺nda: Üstünde (içinde,d覺覺nda) olduum yer. The place that I´m on (in, out of)

Birlikte: Birlikte gittiimiz yer The place that we went to together

 

diken liked this message
5.       diken
4 posts
 21 Jun 2016 Tue 07:01 pm

And what happens with "için"? Does it disappear?

"The child I bought the present for is my nephew."

=

"Hediyeyi ald覺覺m çocuk yeenim." ?

6.       gugukkusu
126 posts
 21 Jun 2016 Tue 07:38 pm

Yep, usually it does. Sometimes you can use other words instead though, as you can see in my examples with "for".

diken liked this message
7.       diken
4 posts
 24 Jun 2016 Fri 01:12 am

In "Turkish: a Comprehensive Grammar" by Asl覺 Göksel and Celia Kerslake, I found that kendisi/kendileri can also be used to carry the lost case suffixes and postpositions if the object is a human being.

So it seems to be possible to translate "the people we are fighting against" as "kendilerine kar覺 savat覺覺m覺z insanlar" and "the child I bought the present for" as "kendisi için hediye ald覺覺m çocuk". Right?

How often is this structure used? How natural does it sound?

Are these kendisi/kendileri here just to carry the case/postposition, or do they add some additional meaning?



Edited (6/24/2016) by diken

Add reply to this discussion




Turkish Dictionary
Turkish Chat
Open mini chat
New in Forums
E-T: I see you have done this before?
harp00n: Bunu ... daha önce de ... Bu konuda iyi olduun ç...
E-T: It´s one of the things on my bu...
denizli: hmmm I ... think there are suffixes ... nor ... But I know wha...
T-E
og2009: ...
T-E
og2009: ...
coronavirus
og2009: ...
OUR FRIENDS
og2009: ...
Coronavirus
harp00n: ...
Grammar Textbook
qdemir: Buy now from amazon.com and save $5.91.
TLC servers hacked, all user emails & pass...
alerque: This sites entire user database seems to have been hacked, I´m ...
T-E
og2009: ...
Individually Tailored Private Turkish Less...
sumrutemur: Do you want to learn Turkish? Do you want to improve your speaking, wr...
Short English>Turkish plz
Tazx1: Please can a Native speaker of Turkish translate the following sentenc...
Random Pictures of Turkey
Add thumbnails like this to your site
Most commented