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Extremely confused!!
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1.       Tazx1
435 posts
 19 Feb 2017 Sun 10:34 pm

I am [an old person] a native speaker of English ... with very LITTLE knowledge of grammar.  In trying to cope with a foreign language [like Turkish] ... I am very confused when it comes to dealing with ´Passive´,´Reflexive´ and ´Causative´ suffixes coming together in one word ... i.e. in simultaneous agglutination.  Unfortunately this is the best way I can explain and hope those who are well versed in ´Grammar´ are able to understand my problem.   To quote, compound suffixes like ´-le┼čtirmek´, ´-lendirmek´ etc., are difficult to handle.  For example a word like :-

                                  > GERÇEK-LE┼×-T─░R-─░L-M─░┼× <  

.... goes right over my head.  Can someone kindly direct me to a source where I can begin to learn and comprehend such constructions.  Thanks.

 



Edited (2/19/2017) by Tazx1 [typo]

denizli liked this message
2.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 20 Feb 2017 Mon 12:11 am

 

Quoting Tazx1

I am [an old person] a native speaker of English ... with very LITTLE knowledge of grammar.  In trying to cope with a foreign language [like Turkish] ... I am very confused when it comes to dealing with ´Passive´,´Reflexive´ and ´Causative´ suffixes coming together in one word ... i.e. in simultaneous agglutination.  Unfortunately this is the best way I can explain and hope those who are well versed in ´Grammar´ are able to understand my problem.   To quote, compound suffixes like ´-le┼čtirmek´, ´-lendirmek´ etc., are difficult to handle.  For example a word like :-

                                  > GERÇEK-LE┼×-T─░R-─░L-M─░┼× <  

.... goes right over my head.  Can someone kindly direct me to a source where I can begin to learn and comprehend such constructions.  Thanks.

 

http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/  

You can learn a lot about Turkish grammer on this site. I agree with you that Turkish grammar is difficult and confusing and if I were a foreigner I would never try to learn Turkish It is always easier to learn a language from the language family which your native language is a member. Of course there are some exceptions too. For example I think learning Farsi is easier for a Turk because of some common vocabulary and easy grammar. That is why it is enjoying to learn Farsi for me but when I try to learn Russian I suffer a lot.

 

denizli liked this message
3.       Tazx1
435 posts
 20 Feb 2017 Mon 12:28 am

Thank you gokuyum for your response .... I have searched 43 pages of this site but failed to see a posting that would help.  Ibegan to think that perhaps my problem is a unique experience!!

You are perfectly right in commenting regarding family of laguages ... and I can appreciate what you say. 

Is there a partucular and/or specific source you [or any other member] would like to suggest?

Manisa Turkish has nothing regarding the problem I face.  Incidentally, I have had contact with John Guise in Austrailia ... he is now in total ´retirement´.

 



Edited (2/20/2017) by Tazx1 [typo]
Edited (2/20/2017) by Tazx1 [typo]

4.       denizli
961 posts
 20 Feb 2017 Mon 12:39 am

 

...

Manisa Turkish has nothing regarding the problem I face.  

...

 

 

Well actually...

 

http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/passivemood.htm

http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/causative.htm

 

I apologize in advance for throwing links at you.

gokuyum and JNQ liked this message
5.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 21 Feb 2017 Tue 11:19 am

https://izabelaszmit.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/turkish-grammar.pdf

How about this book? Look at page 139.  13. Chapter : The Verb Phrase.

 



Edited (2/21/2017) by gokuyum

6.       Tazx1
435 posts
 21 Feb 2017 Tue 02:33 pm

TO ´denizli´:  Please don´t apologise you are being very helpful for which I thank you in ´retrospect´ exceedingly ... But let me explain > My problem is not forming/understanding Passive, Reflexsive,Causitive ... when they come on their own.  Being a ´dim bulb´ ... when they ´cascade´ one after the other ... in the same word e.g., GERÇEK-LE┼×-T─░R-─░L-M─░┼×   ..... I get very confused.  ManisaTurkish is an excellent site but it does NOT deal with my particular problem [as far as I have been able to ascertain] ...  I even approached John Guise himself but he apologised and said that he had now folded up his ´shop´ completely and gone into ´retirement´.

TO ´gokuyum´:  You have sent me a ´Treasure trove´ ... please also accept my profound thanks.  It will take me some time to explore it properly [in order to do it justice] ... I will let you know how I get along.  

Thank you and denizli very, very, very much.  Just wish me ´luck´ ... I am basically an ´old idiot´.  My mind ´short circuits´ with the agglutination of suffixes ... Turkish is a very economical and wonderful language.  Had Qur´an not been revealed in Arabic, Allah would have chosen Turkish instead!!



Edited (2/21/2017) by Tazx1 [typo]

7.       denizli
961 posts
 21 Feb 2017 Tue 06:48 pm

 

Quoting Tazx1

...

  My problem is not forming/understanding Passive, Reflexsive,Causitive ... when they ´cascade´ one after the other

...

 

This is a very broad question.

If I posted on an Arabic Language forum: I´m having difficulty with Arabic

Genitive Syntax constructions, please help me. I think you would get very similar responses.

Also, it seems you are jumping into the hardest aspects of Turkish grammar. 

I can say 2 things. Firstly, the suffixes have a specific order. They can not be rearranged. Consider:

Tom´a ödeme yap─▒lmayacak. (yap - ─▒l - ma - yacak)

Tom will not be paid.

Any different order of the suffixes is wrong. For example yapacakmay─▒l would be wrong.

Secondly, you may be worried, how will you ever be able to understand someone when they speak to you with a verb that has 4 endings. Or how will you be able to add 4 suffixes to a verb in a conversation. If that´s your concern, I totally agree. Myself, I can´t get past 3 and have a lot of difficulty with that many. Then again, no language comes easy. It takes lots of practice. 

8.       aurum
80 posts
 21 Feb 2017 Tue 08:37 pm

gerçekle┼čmek - to come true (on its own) -> Bir hafta sonra söyledikleri gerçekle┼čti. - The following week, his words (lit. what he/she said) came true.

gerçekle┼čtirmek - to make (something) come true (to realize, to carry out) - Kendi hayallerimi gerçekle┼čtirdim. - I made my dreams come true.

gerçekle┼čtirilmek - to be made come true (to be realized, to be carried out) - Davan─▒n süreci adil ┼čekilde gerçekle┼čtirildi. - The trial process was conducted (carried out) fairly.     This means that someone carried out the trial process. However, in the sentence we have decided to use the passive mood.

 

In short:

gerçekle┼čtirilmi┼č - was made come true

Let´s compare the last two forms with similar sentences for better understanding:

Mehmet, toplant─▒ gerçekle┼čtirdi. - Mehmet made a meeting.

Toplant─▒ (Mehmet taraf─▒ndan) gerçekle┼čtirildi. - The meeting was made (by Mehmet). 

 

I hope this helps!

9.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 21 Feb 2017 Tue 08:39 pm

 

Quoting Tazx1

 

TO ´gokuyum´:  You have sent me a ´Treasure trove´ ... please also accept my profound thanks.  It will take me some time to explore it properly [in order to do it justice] ... I will let you know how I get along.  

 

I am happy that I was able to help you. As you can see in the book, Turkish grammar is so vast and difficult. I dont think anyone can learn Turkish from a grammar book. It would be very difficult. I recommend reading parallel texts. Instead of trying to learn grammar rules, try to learn the expressions. Most of the Turkish people speak Turkish without knowing anything about grammar. They just know when to use which expression without knowing the structure of them. So I think you should do the same. You will be more familliar with the grammar in time.

 

10.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 21 Feb 2017 Tue 08:45 pm

My advice to learners is: Don´t focus on grammar, focus on understanding. If you do so you will learn most of the grammar automatically in the process.

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