Welcome
Login:   Pass:     Register - Forgot Password - Resend Activation

Turkish Class Forums / Language

Language

Add reply to this discussion
Bir -i (Indefinite accusative problem with verbs)
1.       aurum
80 posts
 22 Feb 2017 Wed 01:02 am

Hello. I am wondering if anyone could explain to me why some verbs require indefinite nouns to take the accusative case. I also wonder if there is a list of verbs like that.

Let me give you an example:

"Sokakta bir çocu─ču öptüm." VS. "Sokakta bir çocuk gördüm."

Obviously, "child" in both sentences is indefinite. If it were definite, it would take the accusative case in both cases, as follows:

"Sokakta çocu─ču öptüm." AND "Sokakta çocu─ču gördüm."

Both verbs "öpmek" and "görmek" use the accusative case when it comes to definite nouns.

As far as I know, the majority of verbs do not use the accusative case when it comes to indefinite nouns. But there are still plenty of them that DO break the rules, as the case is with "öpmek".

 

I hope my question is clear enough. What are some other verbs that work like the verb "öpmek". Most importantly, WHY does it work that way?

Thank you!



Edited (2/22/2017) by aurum [Misspelled word]

denizli liked this message
2.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 23 Feb 2017 Thu 11:19 pm

 

Quoting aurum

Hello. I am wondering if anyone could explain to me why some verbs require indefinite nouns to take the accusative case. I also wonder if there is a list of verbs like that.

Let me give you an example:

"Sokakta bir çocu─ču öptüm." VS. "Sokakta bir çocuk gördüm."

Obviously, "child" in both sentences is indefinite. If it were definite, it would take the accusative case in both cases, as follows:

"Sokakta çocu─ču öptüm." AND "Sokakta çocu─ču gördüm."

Both verbs "öpmek" and "görmek" use the accusative case when it comes to definite nouns.

As far as I know, the majority of verbs do not use the accusative case when it comes to indefinite nouns. But there are still plenty of them that DO break the rules, as the case is with "öpmek".

 

I hope my question is clear enough. What are some other verbs that work like the verb "öpmek". Most importantly, WHY does it work that way?

Thank you!

"Sokakta bir çocu─ču öptüm" here object(bir çocu─ču) is definite not indefinite. When you use accusative case (-─▒,-i,-u,-ü ) you make that object definite. So function of accusative case in Turkish is to make objects definite. I guess we have a different understanding of accusative case in Turkish.I guess in English grammar if a word is a direct object of a verb it is accusative no matter it is definite or indefinite but in Turkish translations I see that the term "accusative case" is only used for definite direct object. So this creates confusion for me. 

So I will try to explain things without using "accusative" term. Some verbs want its objects to be definite(ends with -─▒,-i,-u,-ü ), some don´t. Maybe there is such a list. I am sure some Turkish dictionaries can be useful too.

 



Edited (2/23/2017) by gokuyum
Edited (2/23/2017) by gokuyum
Edited (2/23/2017) by gokuyum
Edited (2/23/2017) by gokuyum

Frankosevreze liked this message
3.       JNQ
465 posts
 27 Feb 2017 Mon 11:37 am

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

Quoting aurum

"Sokakta bir çocu─ču öptüm." VS. "Sokakta bir çocuk gördüm."

 

"Sokakta bir çocu─ču öptüm" here object(bir çocu─ču) is definite not indefinite.

 

.. Apart from this being a very odd sentence (who goes around kissing indefinite children in the street??)

.. what do both sentences respectively mean? Especially the first one? If it´s not indefinite?

 



Edited (2/27/2017) by JNQ

4.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 27 Feb 2017 Mon 01:03 pm

 

Quoting JNQ

 

 

.. Apart from this being a very odd sentence (who goes around kissing indefinite children in the street??)

.. what do both sentences respectively mean? Especially the first one? If it´s not indefinite?

 

Object in the first sentence is grammatically definite because "bir çocu─ču" has the -u suffix but I think it is a mistake to make it definite because "bir" already makes it indefinite.  It must be "Sokakta bir çocuk öptüm." If we want to make it definite we must remove "bir" and add -u suffix after "çocuk":" Sokakta çocu─ču öptüm." Sometimes we do this kind of mistakes in Turkish.

 



Edited (2/27/2017) by gokuyum

JNQ and denizli liked this message
5.       denizli
961 posts
 27 Feb 2017 Mon 05:18 pm

gokuyum congratulations on reaching 5,000 Turkish Class Points! Çok güzel! This is a feat very few in the world have accomplished! Very impressive.

Speech!...{#emotions_dlg.applause} Speech!...{#emotions_dlg.applause} Speech!... {#emotions_dlg.applause}



Edited (2/27/2017) by denizli

6.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 27 Feb 2017 Mon 05:48 pm

 

Quoting denizli

gokuyum congratulations on reaching 5,000 Turkish Class Points! Çok güzel! This is a feat very few in the world have accomplished! Very impressive.

Speech!...{#emotions_dlg.applause} Speech!...{#emotions_dlg.applause} Speech!... {#emotions_dlg.applause}

 

Thank you  

Add reply to this discussion




Turkish Dictionary
Turkish Chat
Open mini chat
New in Forums
24 HOUR FLASH SALE for learning Turkish e-...
qdemir: ...
Grammar Textbook
qdemir: ...
E-T: I see you have done this before?
harp00n: Bunu ... daha önce de ... Bu konuda iyi oldu─čun ç...
E-T: It´s one of the things on my bu...
denizli: hmmm I ... think there are suffixes ... nor ... But I know wha...
T-E
og2009: ...
T-E
og2009: ...
coronavirus
og2009: ...
OUR FRIENDS
og2009: ...
Coronavirus
harp00n: ...
TLC servers hacked, all user emails & pass...
alerque: This sites entire user database seems to have been hacked, I´m ...
T-E
og2009: ...
Individually Tailored Private Turkish Less...
sumrutemur: Do you want to learn Turkish? Do you want to improve your speaking, wr...
Random Pictures of Turkey
Add thumbnails like this to your site
Most commented