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Assistance with parsing the sentence syntactically
1.       jbionic
7 posts
 20 Jan 2018 Sat 07:29 pm

Please read the following text:

Quote:

Doma b羹y羹me Teksas´l覺 Alice Star Afrika´daki a癟 insanlar yarar覺na Los Angeles stadyumunda 癟ok b羹y羹k bir konser veriyordu. Konserin ortas覺nda bilinmeyen bir gezegenden gelen uzay yarat覺klar覺 taraf覺ndan bir u癟an daireye al覺nm覺 ve ka癟覺r覺lm覺t覺. Alice Star覺n hayranlar覺 bu olay覺 b羹y羹lenmi g繹zlerle izlemiler, sonra da ne olup bittiini tart覺maya balam覺lard覺.

[Hayranlar覺]Alice Star´覺 bir 覺覺n demetine sararak sahnenin ortas覺ndan h羹羹p diye al覺p bir u癟andaire i癟ine 癟eken, bug羹ne kadar g繹r羹lmemi bu tekniin nas覺l salanabildii 羹zerine, olur olmaz ak覺llar y羹r羹t羹yor; hayranl覺ktan b羹y羹lenmi, kendinden ge癟mi bir bi癟imde ba覺ra 癟a覺ra tart覺覺yorlard覺.



Below is the translation

Quote:

Alice Star, born and raised a Texan, was giving a very big concert in a Los Angeles stadium benefiting hungry people in Africa. In the middle of the concert she was kidnapped and taken into a spaceship by aliens from an unknown planet. Her fans watched this event with great fascination; then they began to discuss what had happened.
[Her fans] were offering all kinds of explanations for how it could be possible to wrap Alice Star up in rays of light and instantly suck her up from the middle of the stage into the spaceship. After all, such a feat had never been seen before. Stunned and thrilled with admiration, they were arguing and carrying on.



I have 2 questions about the text:

I. I need help with parsing the very last (and long) sentence. The main difficulty for me is Turkish syntax, which makes it difficult to comprehend how different parts of a sentence are interlocked with each other via affixes (I strive to understand which word is an object for which word, which word belongs to description of which word)

My way of parsing the last sentence is as follows:
1. The fascinated fans argued = hayranl覺ktan b羹y羹lenmi tart覺覺yorlard覺
2. The way they argued (how they argued?) was bir bi癟imde ba覺ra 癟a覺ra
3. The subject of their argument was regarding (bu tekniin nas覺l salanabildii 羹zerine)
4. The technique (bu tekniin nas覺l) concerned what?
4.1.Alice Star´覺 bir 覺覺n demetine sararak sahnenin ortas覺ndan = as Alice Star were wrapped up by a ray from the mid of stage
4.2.bir u癟andaire i癟ine 癟eken, bug羹ne kadar g繹r羹lmemi = (the ray) sucking into the spaceship till she entirely disappeared from the view

My understanding is that <癟eken> is the participle related to bir 覺覺n = a ray. But I dont understand whether bir 覺覺n is subjected to any action as an object by any other member of the sentence?

I still find my way of parsing is somewhat incomplete and would be grateful if someone could explain the missing syntactical linkage between the words.

II. Is there only one way to write the last sentence in Turkish? Or is it possible to write the sentence differently by moving and re-arranging its words?

Edited (1/20/2018) by jbionic
Edited (1/20/2018) by jbionic
Edited (1/20/2018) by jbionic
Edited (1/20/2018) by jbionic

2.       Mushin
68 posts
 21 Jan 2018 Sun 02:26 pm

 

Quoting jbionic

Please read the following text:

Quote:

Doma büyüme Teksas´l覺 Alice Star Afrika´daki aç insanlar yarar覺na Los Angeles stadyumunda çok büyük bir konser veriyordu. Konserin ortas覺nda bilinmeyen bir gezegenden gelen uzay yarat覺klar覺 taraf覺ndan bir uçan daireye al覺nm覺 ve kaç覺r覺lm覺t覺. Alice Star’覺n hayranlar覺 bu olay覺 büyülenmi gözlerle izlemiler, sonra da ne olup bittiini tart覺maya balam覺lard覺. [Hayranlar覺]Alice Star´覺 bir 覺覺n demetine sararak sahnenin ortas覺ndan hüüp diye al覺p bir uçandaire içine çeken, bugüne kadar görülmemi bu tekniin nas覺l salanabildii üzerine, olur olmaz ak覺llar yürütüyor; hayranl覺ktan büyülenmi, kendinden geçmi bir biçimde ba覺ra ça覺ra tart覺覺yorlard覺.

Below is the translation

Quote:

Alice Star, born and raised a Texan, was giving a very big concert in a Los Angeles stadium benefiting hungry people in Africa. In the middle of the concert she was kidnapped and taken into a spaceship by aliens from an unknown planet. Her fans watched this event with great fascination; then they began to discuss what had happened. [Her fans] were offering all kinds of explanations for how it could be possible to wrap Alice Star up in rays of light and instantly suck her up from the middle of the stage into the spaceship. After all, such a feat had never been seen before. Stunned and thrilled with admiration, they were arguing and carrying on.

I have 2 questions about the text: I. I need help with parsing the very last (and long) sentence. The main difficulty for me is Turkish syntax, which makes it difficult to comprehend how different parts of a sentence are interlocked with each other via affixes (I strive to understand which word is an object for which word, which word belongs to description of which word) My way of parsing the last sentence is as follows: 1. The fascinated fans argued = hayranl覺ktan büyülenmi tart覺覺yorlard覺 2. The way they argued (how they argued?) was bir biçimde ba覺ra ça覺ra 3. The subject of their argument was regarding (bu tekniin nas覺l salanabildii üzerine) 4. The technique (bu tekniin nas覺l) concerned what? 4.1.Alice Star´覺 bir 覺覺n demetine sararak sahnenin ortas覺ndan = as Alice Star were wrapped up by a ray from the mid of stage 4.2.bir uçandaire içine çeken, bugüne kadar görülmemi = (the ray) sucking into the spaceship till she entirely disappeared from the view My understanding is that <çeken> is the participle related to bir 覺覺n = a ray. But I dont understand whether bir 覺覺n is subjected to any action as an object by any other member of the sentence? I still find my way of parsing is somewhat incomplete and would be grateful if someone could explain the missing syntactical linkage between the words. II. Is there only one way to write the last sentence in Turkish? Or is it possible to write the sentence differently by moving and re-arranging its words?

 

OK here´s my try:

[Hayranlar覺]Alice Star´覺 bir 覺覺n demetine sararak sahnenin ortas覺ndan hüüp diye al覺p bir uçandaire içine çeken, bugüne kadar görülmemi bu tekniin nas覺l salanabildii üzerine, olur olmaz ak覺llar yürütüyor; hayranl覺ktan büyülenmi, kendinden geçmi bir biçimde ba覺ra ça覺ra tart覺覺yorlard覺.

 

Bold part is related to "bu teknik" this technic.

Simplify it by dropping:

[Hayranlar覺] bu tekniin nas覺l salanabildii üzerine, olur olmaz ak覺llar yürütüyor; hayranl覺ktan büyülenmi, kendinden geçmi bir biçimde ba覺ra ça覺ra tart覺覺yorlard覺.

 

And the bold part can be translated this way:

This technic that makes it possible to wrap Alice Star up in rays of light and instantly suck her up from the middle of the stage into the spaceship

 

Hope this helps...

3.       jbionic
7 posts
 21 Jan 2018 Sun 03:58 pm

Thanks. Just to clarify:

1. Is it (bir 覺覺n) or (bir u癟andaire) that is sucking = (癟eken)?
2. Do (al覺p = alan AND) and (癟eken) both describe the same object, which is either (bir 覺覺n) or (bir u癟andaire)?

Edited (1/21/2018) by jbionic
Edited (1/21/2018) by jbionic
Edited (1/21/2018) by jbionic

4.       Mushin
68 posts
 21 Jan 2018 Sun 05:25 pm

 

Quoting jbionic

Thanks. Just to clarify: 1. Is it (bir 覺覺n) or (bir uçandaire) that is sucking = (çeken)? 2. Do (al覺p = alan AND) and (çeken) both describe the same object, which is either (bir 覺覺n) or (bir uçandaire)?

 

1. No it´s "the technic" that sucks. "覺覺n" and "uçandaire" both are objects in the inner clause. Subject of that inner clause is "this technic".

 

2. Yes. An their object is Alice Star.

5.       jbionic
7 posts
 21 Jan 2018 Sun 06:02 pm

Thank you, Mushin, for your help.
That´s what I like about Turkish language Because until a native Turkish speaker explains how things are understood, one may be contemplating a sentence for hours in a search of hidden connections between the sacred words, especially when it comes to reading a long Turkish sentence. So no matter how knowledgeable one is in Turkish grammar, it just doesn´t help much if one cannot see the connection between 2 words that sometimes are found within 10 words from each other in the opposite ends of a sentence.

Edited (1/21/2018) by jbionic

6.       S.S.K. La
10 posts
 23 Jun 2019 Sun 07:35 pm

襤f you think this is even remotely complicated to understand, listen to Ramiz Day覺´s poems or pattern of talking. After a long time, 襤 got used to it, but in the beggining his Turkish is a bit strange. {#emotions_dlg.lol}

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