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aorist tense + olmak
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| 1. |
20 Sep 2006 Wed 07:19 am |
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What could this mean?
"Uyuyamaz oldum."
Is this anything like "I hadn't been able to sleep"?
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| 2. |
20 Sep 2006 Wed 08:12 am |
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Quoting Chrisfer: What could this mean?
"Uyuyamaz oldum."
Is this anything like "I hadn't been able to sleep"? |
OK, let's try to formulate it.
V + -ir/-er olmak = start to do V+ing regularly (recently)
V + -mez olmak = start not to do something regularly (recently)
So
Uyu-ya-maz oldum = I started to be unable to sleep regularly (recently) (Nowadays I can't get to sleep somehow and it wasn't like this before)
Some more:
git-mez oldum = I started not to go (there) regularly (I don't go there at all nowadays, but I used to sometime in the past)
gid-er oldum = I started to go there regularly (I go there regularly nowadays but I didn't use to sometime in the past)
This form is called "Başlama fiilleri" (start verbs) in my grammar book. Negative form is used for regret sometimes.
Olmaz olsun -- I regret it happenned this way.
Görmez olsaydım -- I regret I saw it/him/her
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| 3. |
20 Sep 2006 Wed 07:24 pm |
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So it's like the English perfect tenses:
Uyuyamaz oldum.
I haven't been able to sleep (lately).
Gitmez oldum.
I haven't been going (these days).
Anladım. Sağ ol aslan2!
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| 4. |
21 Sep 2006 Thu 07:01 am |
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uyuyamaz oldum
but there is an ability
uyumaz/uyuyamaz
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| 5. |
21 Sep 2006 Thu 08:34 am |
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Quoting Chrisfer: So it's like the English perfect tenses:
Uyuyamaz oldum.
I haven't been able to sleep (lately).
Gitmez oldum.
I haven't been going (these days).
Anladım. Sağ ol aslan2! |
A perfect is a grammaticalization of the current relevance, at the moment of utterance, of an event or state that occurred prior to the moment of utterance.
As its name implies (başlama fiileri = start verbs), this form is used for starting doing something (or not doing something if negative i.e. stopping doing something). So they imply that the activity will also be continued in the near future.
Your examples are called a perfect of persistent situation, which is a grammaticalization of the current relevance of a state or event begun prior to the moment of utterance, which is relevant because of its continuation until the moment of utterance. But will it be continued in the near future?
Anyway your translations seem to be an approximation and they are OK.
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| 6. |
21 Sep 2006 Thu 09:21 am |
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Quoting caliptrix: uyuyamaz oldum
but there is an ability
uyumaz/uyuyamaz |
uyumaz oldum -- I started not to sleep nowadays (I don't sleep much nowadays)
uyuyamaz oldum -- I started to be unable to sleep nowadays (I can't sleep nowadays)
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| 7. |
21 Sep 2006 Thu 09:06 pm |
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Quoting aslan2: Quoting Chrisfer: So it's like the English perfect tenses:
Uyuyamaz oldum.
I haven't been able to sleep (lately).
Gitmez oldum.
I haven't been going (these days).
Anladım. Sağ ol aslan2! |
A perfect is a grammaticalization of the current relevance, at the moment of utterance, of an event or state that occurred prior to the moment of utterance.
As its name implies (başlama fiileri = start verbs), this form is used for starting doing something (or not doing something if negative i.e. stopping doing something). So they imply that the activity will also be continued in the near future.
Your examples are called a perfect of persistent situation, which is a grammaticalization of the current relevance of a state or event begun prior to the moment of utterance, which is relevant because of its continuation until the moment of utterance. But will it be continued in the near future?
Anyway your translations seem to be an approximation and they are OK.
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I think the perfect tenses do imply that the action will continue in the near future, unless the sentence or context says otherwise (ex. "I haven't been sleeping well," means it started in the past, it's true in the present, and will probably continue unless I say something like, "I haven't been sleeping well, so I'm going to take these sleeping pills.") Is this how the Turkish construct works, or does it always imply continuing in the future?
To tell the truth, though, this is a rather theoretical question given my actual Turkish level (low). If you say my translations are good enough approximations, I'll probably just go with that for now. Thanks a lot aslan2!
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| 8. |
21 Sep 2006 Thu 09:09 pm |
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Quoting caliptrix: uyuyamaz oldum
but there is an ability
uyumaz/uyuyamaz |
Yep, the difference is "I haven't been sleeping," vs. "I haven't been able to sleep."
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| 9. |
22 Sep 2006 Fri 08:18 am |
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Quoting Chrisfer:
I think the perfect tenses do imply that the action will continue in the near future, unless the sentence or context says otherwise (ex. "I haven't been sleeping well," means it started in the past, it's true in the present, and will probably continue unless I say something like, "I haven't been sleeping well, so I'm going to take these sleeping pills.") Is this how the Turkish construct works, or does it always imply continuing in the future?
To tell the truth, though, this is a rather theoretical question given my actual Turkish level (low). If you say my translations are good enough approximations, I'll probably just go with that for now. Thanks a lot aslan2! |
That Turkish construct almost always imply continuing in the (near) future.
This way it even sounds better to my ears:
V-mez oldum = I don't V nowadays
V-emez oldum = I can't V nowadays
uyumaz oldum = I don't sleep nowadays
uyuyamaz oldum = I can't sleep nowadays
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| 10. |
22 Sep 2006 Fri 03:16 pm |
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Quoting Chrisfer: To tell the truth, though, this is a rather theoretical question given my actual Turkish level (low). |
But that should not stop you asking the questions and trying to understand the answers......even if you don't remember them or find a way to apply them to your usage of the language.
In the future you may ask the same questions again but that is all part of the learning process - at some point in the future these bits of informtion that you cannot use directly now will fit into place with other things that you have not yet learnt.
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