General/Off-topic |
Thread locked by a moderator or admin. |
|
|
|
|
Marriage between two faiths
|
| 300. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 06:24 pm |
|
Hello aenigma x
Quoting aenigma x: I am always sad to see, especially on a website for people who have an interest and love of Turkey, that you only have to scratch the surface of any Turk to find the deep hatred felt towards the US and 'Western Europe'. It sometimes makes me wonder what lies beneath the warm welcome and wide smiles you receive on visiting Turkey . |
People do not create hatred, politicians do it. So i do not think Turks hate the foreigners but it is clear from surveys today they do not like the politics of west. And if you think lies beneath the behaviours of Turkish people, i can say that you havent recognised the Turkish people yet.
Quoting aenigma x: but can inform you that Oliver Stone's visit to Turkey was well publicised in the UK press in 2004, and his comments recorded. |
I talked about the news which was declared on 16th of June by Billy Hayes that is new not on 2004, he confessed that most of the movie was fiction and fantasy…Anyways
Quoting aenigma x: I am really shocked at your paranoid, nationalistic speech spitting hatred of the 'imperialistic' West, Armegon! This is not just a political argument - it's the kind of hatred you only expect to hear from extremists! Maybe I am naive about Turkey |
What do you think about biggest meetings of Turkish history performed so far this year? They are all shouting the same thing which i mentioned here. All of them are paranoid and extremists who are spreading hatred?. They are shouting as “Ne ABD ne AB tam bağımsız Türkiye!â€. I think you became sad and angry when i criticized the politics of west, i did it because catwoman criticised the politics of Türkiye at the same time she praised the politics of imperialists. Im sorry truths hurt. So no need to be sad, only be objective.
Quoting aenigma x: I am certainly not proud of a great deal of my country's history, and definitely NOT proud of recent actions either. What I AM proud of about my country is the fact that we do not blindly defend our country to the detriment of truth. |
I am not the one who defended blindly, im always against every blind beliefs, blind faith, blind defence, every blind thing  , im on the side of knowledge, researching and observing  . Btw i do not blame the whole world, i criticized the politics of them.
And for the weapons of pkk, Turkish army declared that our allies supporting them. Im not talking about the past, am talking about the present day. And you can find many news supporting these claims on Turkish newspapers.
Cheers…
|
|
| 302. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 07:20 pm |
|
Quoting aenigma x: It has certainly changed my views on a few things though, so in that respect the time spent on this was a worthwhile exercise 
|
It's good that it changed your views, maybe it's some kind of waking up to the reality for you about the civilized west. And also besides the cliché you hear all the time: "Turks are super symphatic, warm people..." you also saw that the same Turkish people could be also aware of the things going on in the world.
West might be modern and civilized towards their citizens, but on the other face of the coin there lies dark realities. In the world arena beside the few good things occuring like fighting for human rights, fighting for hunger, also exists the dark side of the west who does not abstain from doing things for their benefits although its results might bring disaster to other people than theirs. Why does it surprise you so much to hear that this civilized west have supported directly or indirectly the terrorist group PKK which they have accepted as a terrorist group as well? It's as true as the US having created the fanatic İslamic groups in the middle east against communism for their benefits. Is not knowing these things happening in the world the real blindness?
Atatürk has never mentioned to be like West, but he always mentioned to be in the direction of civilization, and he told to admire only the things that should be admired in the West.
|
|
| 303. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 07:58 pm |
|
Quoting mltm: Why does it surprise you so much to hear that this civilized west have supported directly or indirectly the terrorist group PKK which they have accepted as a terrorist group as well?
|
Because its not true!
Exact figures show that you have the WHOLE WORLD to blame, including TURKEY itself! The PKK weapons seized so far: 39% Russian-made weapons, 32% Italian made weapons the balance as follows:708 Chinese-made weapons (4 percent), 566 Iraqi, 514 Czech, 453 Spanish, 358 Belgian, 170 Bulgarian, 162 American, 179 Hungarian, 147 Turkish, 120 French, 131 British, 58 Polish, 41 Iranian, 38 Yugoslavian and 21 Syrian-made weapons. The PKK also used several Afghan, Korean, Argentine, Brazilian, Greek, Saudi, Lebanese and Egyptian-made weapons.
Directly supported? This is a nice "throw away" comment Meltem. Where is your evidence to suggest such a thing?
Please do not get me on to the subject of countries supporting terrorism because I can assure you its not worth getting banned from this site for.
|
|
| 304. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 08:13 pm |
|
Quoting aenigma x:
On the contrary, your post above proves my analogy to be true! You are allowed to criticize my country (in fact, finding NOTHING of good to say about it) but I am expected to only adore yours!
Yes, I am quite sure I would be "treated good" by the Turkish people, thank you! I also now know what is really behind the smiles of some of you . Don't patronize me in thinking you have taught me any more about the "norms" of Turkish people! As with anywhere you all have different "norms" (as your arguments with other Turkish members here prove!).
Up to me to pay attention to them? I can't really be bothered anymore, thank you
|
Sometimes you couldn't understand some nations behaviours, their norms wouldn't fit yours, their reactions would seem unjustice to you, so the whole thing would become weird. But that's alright. No need to push it. Accept things as they are.
Your favorite culture is perhaps not Turkish culture. But It's okay again. There're many other fascinating cultures waiting to be discovered in the world.
By the way, I see you still refuse my representation of Turkish people. Not only I have a life-long experience about Turkish langauge and culture as I am a native Turk, but also my special focus is Turkish people. I examine Turkish people-language-culture region by region, city by city, village by village. Therefore when I reply, I consider all aspects of Turkish people, then I give you a very rough answer which is almost imposible to deny. I consider what an ordinary Turk would think concerning the issue. Therefore when you say "You want me to adore you", I am to say "So what? Turkish people love that!" Or "you check female members profile", then I say "So what? Turkish men love women."
That's the whole point actually. You need to talk to "Turkish people.", which I am an expert on.
"You don't like being criticized!"
"You know what? Turkish people don't like being criticized."
If you want to deny my reprentation of Turkish people, say that Turkish people love tourists whose sole reason is to criticize Turkish people. And make my day.
|
|
| 305. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 08:19 pm |
|
Quoting mltm: It's good that it changed your views, maybe it's some kind of waking up to the reality for you about the civilized west. And also besides the cliché you hear all the time: "Turks are super symphatic, warm people..." you also saw that the same Turkish people could be also aware of the things going on in the world.
|
This is, by far, the most naive comment I have ever read on here! Where on EARTH do you get your paranoid views about "how we view Turkey"?
This "civilized" west or EU you keep talking of is not a group I have ever considered myself a part of until I came here. I think of my country as England. I think of Turkey as Turkey, and DEFINITELY think of it as civilised (well....I used to, until now!!!). I have never doubted that they are more or less aware of the world than anyone else!!! How paranoid you all are! Where exactly do you get this point of view? It seems like you have an inferiority complex 
Of course I am well aware of my country's mistakes and faults - I have never said otherwise. But I dont understand this EAST/WEST divide that you continually refer to I would never label Turkey as "the east" or include them in blame of any decisions or wrongdoings of another country in the east. So why do you do it to us?
|
|
| 306. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 08:24 pm |
|
Quoting Gizli Yuz: Your favorite culture is perhaps not Turkish culture. But It's okay again. There're many other fascinating cultures waiting to be discovered in the world.
|
No Gizli Yuz. I seem to remember it was just a few days ago that you were declaring yourself a "modern Turk" and condeming "Turkish village mentality" saying that certain traditions "shamed modern Turkey".
I would say that YOUR favourite culture is not Turkish culture.
With regard to criticism, perhaps you would like to check my posts and find any direct criticism I have made of your country (other than the fact they do not accept criticism!!!!!)
Then check the number of posts in this thread where Turkish members have critised mine (or the WEST as you like to describe a number of countries that I am a small part of).
|
|
| 307. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 08:25 pm |
|
Quoting Gizli Yuz:
Sometimes you couldn't understand some nations behaviours, their norms wouldn't fit yours, their reactions would seem unjustice to you, so the whole thing would become weird. But that's alright. No need to push it. Accept things as they are.
|
this is childish here now.
i personally cannot accept things as they are: things like women discrimination, religion discrimination, ethnic discrimination and all other stuff. i cannot quietly watch it, i will always point at them (push them!) otherwise im not a human being but just a zombie.
|
|
| 308. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 08:39 pm |
|
I wont be posting any more on this thread as I think its getting a bit out of hand. The suggestion of terrorism support and funding is an "insult too far" in my opinion.
Apologies to Gilzi Yuz - on checking your posts I see that you didn't in fact directly criticise - this was other members. I have amended my post.
|
|
| 309. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 08:42 pm |
|
Quoting aenigma x:
No Gizli Yuz. I seem to remember it was just a few days ago that you were declaring yourself a "modern Turk" and condeming "Turkish village mentality" saying that certain traditions "shamed modern Turkey".
|
Either you have a serious memory problem or you are trying to drive me crazy. Check my posts and find the posts you are refering to, or apologize me right now.
Here's a good example of what I am thinking about my Father, my mother, my uncle, my aunt and so on:
Queston from Catwoman:
Why are all these women in headscarfs and in a village setting? You make such videos and then are surprised about the kinds of stereotypes that people have about Turks.
Answer from Gizli Yuz:
Those women (villagers) are a true reflection of what Turkish culture is. Note that those headscarfs are of anatolian native culture, which has nothing to do with Islam, and are seen in many corresponding culture as well, such as Armenian villagers and Greek villagers, who' re christians.
Islamic style clothing is different than Anatolian style clothing. Many tourists, who don't know much about Turkey, might think that It's islamic, but personally I have certainly nothing against the idea that Anatolian Turks are stereotyped as wearing Anatolian clothing.
This is our culture. those are my people.
|
|
| 310. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 08:56 pm |
|
IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT
I saw the thread locked, so I have no chance to post my last post. Here's my last post to answer to the post below:
"Aenigma". I never presented myself "Modern Turk" and bashed Turkish villagers, just because they were villagers. Mltm wrote that she respects the culture. Not all traditions are primitive, but there are primitive traditions, such as "virginity thing." or honor killings. There are good traditions which are called "culture" which is also what Mltm respect.
IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT IMPORTANT
Now go on misunderstanding Turkish culture and people.
|
|
|
