General/Off-topic |
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Marriage between two faiths
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10 Jul 2007 Tue 12:43 am |
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Quoting femme_fatal: it must be really terrible and sad to live in such a fear and a threat that everybody in this world is going to destroy your country. do you really think that eu or usa's aim is so? who feeds you with such info? gov! |
No fear dearest femme_fatal, i only share my opinions about their hypocracy politics and nobody feeds me with this infos except history and the politics and im a good reader of history every source from all kinds. Im sure you heard about Sevr, and look at today maps about Türkiye on Europe, you can understand what i mean, just 2 days ago shown in a conference in Greece and Türkiye condemned these officially… We do not make enemies, they choose us as enemy to reach their goals. What do you think about big middle-east project which claims to change the map of middle-east…
Quoting femme_fatal: and even some criticisms make out of some TC users turkish haters! unbelievingly naive! |
Sorry but i did not call anyone Turkish hater here, i only criticized opinions not people if these sentence said against me…
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| 291. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 12:46 am |
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Quoting armegon:
Quoting femme_fatal: and even some criticisms make out of some TC users turkish haters! unbelievingly naive! |
Sorry but i did not call anyone Turkish hater here, i only criticized opinions not people if these sentence said against me…
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i hope you are aware im not talking only to you?
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| 292. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 12:51 am |
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I am always sad to see, especially on a website for people who have an interest and love of Turkey, that you only have to scratch the surface of any Turk to find the deep hatred felt towards the US and UK. It sometimes makes me wonder what lies beneath the warm welcome and wide smiles you receive on visiting Turkey  .
My comments on two of your points:-
Its a sad fact that these weapons are obtained via black-market deals, but although you like to blame the US and EU, in fact the majority of weapons have been obtained in Russia. Sadly, there is an increase in supply in the past year from EU countries I agree, particularly Italy, but they are not "given" by these countries in support of this organisation! They are traded illegally in the black market.
Taken from Zaman:-
"Large quantities of weapons and ammunition have been transferred from Iraq to Turkey, particularly following the US occupation in Iraq. Contrary to expectations, these weapons are generally not from the US. Only 162 of the weapons, mostly heavy weaponry and hand grenades, seized by the security officials during the last two years were of US-origin. Most PKK weapons are manufactured in Russia and Italy. In 1999 PKK leader Abdullah Öcalan had to leave Syria and sought asylum in Italy."
Exact figures show that you have the WHOLE WORLD to blame, including TURKEY itself! The PKK has used 708 Chinese-made weapons (4 percent), 566 Iraqi, 514 Czech, 453 Spanish, 358 Belgian, 170 Bulgarian, 162 American, 179 Hungarian, 147 Turkish, 120 French, 131 British, 58 Polish, 41 Iranian, 38 Yugoslavian and 21 Syrian-made weapons. The PKK also used several Afghan, Korean, Argentine, Brazilian, Greek, Saudi, Lebanese and Egyptian-made weapons.
In the UK we suffered terrorism from the IRA for decades. 90% of money used for weapons was openly donated by Irish Americans in the US. I do not blame the US or judge the US citizens as a whole, for this.
With regard to Midnight Express, I can only speak on behalf of the UK media, but can inform you that Oliver Stone's visit to Turkey was well publicised in the UK press in 2004, and his comments recorded. As I understand it, however, he did not say it was a "lie" but did admit they were greatly "exaggerated". Quote from Oliver Stone: "I never intended it to be against Turkey. It was against injustice... everywhere. Perhaps some of the zealousness, some of the anger came from being young and trying to make the point too much, too hard." He then went on to comment that in his view the Turkish prisons were no worse or better than those in the US. I do remember this well from media reports.
I agree with you about the hypocracy of the German media regarding the German boy in Antalya and also agree that he should be tried for this crime in Turkey. I am sure your paranoia lets you assume that all the "West" agrees with Germany on this. Not so.
I am really shocked at your paranoid, nationalistic speech spitting hatred of the "imperialistic" West, Armegon! This is not just a political argument - it's the kind of hatred you only expect to hear from extremists! Maybe I am naive about Turkey 
I am certainly not proud of a great deal of my country's history, and definitely NOT proud of recent actions either. What I AM proud of about my country is the fact that we do not blindly defend our country to the detriment of truth.
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| 293. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 02:56 am |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting Gizli Yuz: "All you want to hear is praise and admiration for your country and for "Turkishness".
I am afraid, that's the feeling of a big majority Turks. |
That is OK, but I can criticize it. |
It's okay as long as you know that you're challinging not only me but also the majority of Turkish people.
Quoting catwoman:
You completely misunderstood Aenigma's point....! She wanted to say that you don't need to feel insecure about being criticized here, because the sole fact that we are here shows that we find something worthy about your country. You can also see that in countless threads in which there's lots of praise, which you can go ahead and enjoy...
However, (I know it's not a norm in your country), but in a free world, it's OK to express criticism, so, sorry... you gotta get used to it. Even if I had no other reasons, my sole desire to criticize Turkey would be enough of a reason for me to be here. I don't need your approval to say what I want to say .
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Not only she explained why I shouldn't feel insecure, but she also wrote that people are here because they love Turkey, which is the main reason why I was confused about your existence here in the first place. I just wanted to know her explanation about your case. To find Turkish people's faults would be satisfied answer, sure.
I think you'd better get used to Turkish people, considering that seeing and drawing attention to only certain people's faults would be seen a "hate speech" by Turkish people.
Quoting femme fatal: d even some criticisms make out of some TC users turkish haters! unbelievingly naive! |
I think what I said can't be easily understood by those who are from a politically passive country, or from a country which has no remarkable history. Like there're many who love Turkey, there are tens of thousands who have difficulty with Turkish people and Turkish history, hence Turkey. Their behaviours can only be explained with their emotions and feelings towards Turkey. Therefore the usage of "Turkish hater" here is similar to the usage of "Anti semitism" or "Jew haters".
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10 Jul 2007 Tue 03:37 am |
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Quoting Gizli Yuz: Quoting catwoman: Quoting Gizli Yuz: "All you want to hear is praise and admiration for your country and for "Turkishness".
I am afraid, that's the feeling of a big majority Turks. |
That is OK, but I can criticize it. |
It's okay as long as you know that you're challinging not only me but also the majority of Turkish people.
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There was a boy in my class at school years ago. He was new to the area and had no friends. All my classmates tried to befriend him, but it was so difficult. He was so proud and boastful of himself and his family and so critical of everyone else, that it was impossible to get to know him well. He didn't like the games we played, he didn't like the food we ate. He could NEVER say anything nice about us, or our families or the lovely village we lived in, but expected us to heap praise on him! Sadly it became common to tease him and criticise him sometimes! He remained alone until they moved away a year later.
The fact is, you can't sustain a liking for somebody if they just dont like YOU 
That's exactly how I feel about Turkey now .
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| 295. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 04:18 am |
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Quoting aenigma x:
There was a boy in my class at school years ago. He was new to the area and had no friends. All my classmates tried to befriend him, but it was so difficult. He was so proud and boastful of himself and his family and so critical of everyone else, that it was impossible to get to know him well. He didn't like the games we played, he didn't like the food we ate. He could NEVER say anything nice about us, or our families or the lovely village we lived in, but expected us to heap praise on him! Sadly it became common to tease him and criticise him sometimes! He remained alone until they moved away a year later.
That's exactly how I feel about Turkey now . |
Your friend analogy makes no sense. One would be treated good by Turkish people as long as one doesn't try to irritate them, especially with their national issues. In this thread, you were told about the norms of Turkish people. Now It's up to you to pay attention to them.
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| 296. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 09:25 am |
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Quoting Gizli Yuz: One would be treated good by Turkish people as long as one doesn't try to irritate them, especially with their national issues. In this thread, you were told about the norms of Turkish people. Now It's up to you to pay attention to them. |
On the contrary, your post above proves my analogy to be true! You are allowed to criticize my country (in fact, finding NOTHING of good to say about it) but I am expected to only adore yours!
Yes, I am quite sure I would be "treated good" by the Turkish people, thank you! I also now know what is really behind the smiles of some of you  . Don't patronize me in thinking you have taught me any more about the "norms" of Turkish people! As with anywhere you all have different "norms" (as your arguments with other Turkish members here prove!).
Up to me to pay attention to them? I can't really be bothered anymore, thank you
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| 297. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 01:30 pm |
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You now say that the smiles and sympathy you received in Turkey were false. No, they're not false because when turkish people critique the EU and USA, we just critique their "politique", the people who came to visit us are not responbsible of these. It's like you critique USA because of Iraq war , yet you do not hate the americans.
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| 298. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 05:27 pm |
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Quoting mltm: No, they're not false because when turkish people critique the EU and USA, we just critique their "politique", |
But we may NOT "critique" YOURS?
Sounds fair!
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| 299. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 05:39 pm |
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Quoting aenigma x: On the contrary, your post above proves my analogy to be true! You are allowed to criticize my country (in fact, finding NOTHING of good to say about it) but I am expected to only adore yours!
Yes, I am quite sure I would be "treated good" by the Turkish people, thank you! I also now know what is really behind the smiles of some of you . Don't patronize me in thinking you have taught me any more about the "norms" of Turkish people! As with anywhere you all have different "norms" (as your arguments with other Turkish members here prove!).
Up to me to pay attention to them? I can't really be bothered anymore, thank you |
+1! 
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| 300. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 06:24 pm |
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Hello aenigma x
Quoting aenigma x: I am always sad to see, especially on a website for people who have an interest and love of Turkey, that you only have to scratch the surface of any Turk to find the deep hatred felt towards the US and 'Western Europe'. It sometimes makes me wonder what lies beneath the warm welcome and wide smiles you receive on visiting Turkey . |
People do not create hatred, politicians do it. So i do not think Turks hate the foreigners but it is clear from surveys today they do not like the politics of west. And if you think lies beneath the behaviours of Turkish people, i can say that you havent recognised the Turkish people yet.
Quoting aenigma x: but can inform you that Oliver Stone's visit to Turkey was well publicised in the UK press in 2004, and his comments recorded. |
I talked about the news which was declared on 16th of June by Billy Hayes that is new not on 2004, he confessed that most of the movie was fiction and fantasy…Anyways
Quoting aenigma x: I am really shocked at your paranoid, nationalistic speech spitting hatred of the 'imperialistic' West, Armegon! This is not just a political argument - it's the kind of hatred you only expect to hear from extremists! Maybe I am naive about Turkey |
What do you think about biggest meetings of Turkish history performed so far this year? They are all shouting the same thing which i mentioned here. All of them are paranoid and extremists who are spreading hatred?. They are shouting as “Ne ABD ne AB tam bağımsız Türkiye!â€. I think you became sad and angry when i criticized the politics of west, i did it because catwoman criticised the politics of Türkiye at the same time she praised the politics of imperialists. Im sorry truths hurt. So no need to be sad, only be objective.
Quoting aenigma x: I am certainly not proud of a great deal of my country's history, and definitely NOT proud of recent actions either. What I AM proud of about my country is the fact that we do not blindly defend our country to the detriment of truth. |
I am not the one who defended blindly, im always against every blind beliefs, blind faith, blind defence, every blind thing , im on the side of knowledge, researching and observing  . Btw i do not blame the whole world, i criticized the politics of them.
And for the weapons of pkk, Turkish army declared that our allies supporting them. Im not talking about the past, am talking about the present day. And you can find many news supporting these claims on Turkish newspapers.
Cheers…
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