General/Off-topic |
Thread locked by a moderator or admin. |
|
|
|
|
Marriage between two faiths
|
| 280. |
09 Jul 2007 Mon 08:28 pm |
|
Quoting mltm: Ok, criticize Turkey but also be aware that you will always find someone who will object to it when they think it's not the way it's. |
Quoting mltm: It's not a tribal behaviour, it's patriotism, and nationalism and they're the qualifications which have made turkish nation strong and united for thousands of years. And this frustrates very much EU and USA. |
There is a difference between healthy patriotism (where you criticize bad things because you care that they get better) and nationalism (where you think that any criticism is bad).
I think your belief that nationalism frustrates US and EU is very much of a feel-good rationalization of your attitude. I don't think you actually examined this belief. It's some sort of reasonable-sounding explanation that fits your desires.. .
|
|
| 281. |
09 Jul 2007 Mon 09:06 pm |
|
Maybe, your and our understanding of nationalism are different.
Atatürk formulated 6 principles:
1) Republicanism
2) Nationalism
3) Populism
4) Statism
5) Secularism
6) Revolutionism
These are the principles we have been taught since primary school. For us nationalism is not a bad thing, on the contrary it's an essential thing and it's not a sick thing if you do not carry it to fanaticism or racism.
|
|
| 282. |
09 Jul 2007 Mon 09:10 pm |
|
what does nationalism mean?
does it cover all other minor ethnic groups in turkey or it reffers to only turks themselves?
|
|
| 283. |
09 Jul 2007 Mon 09:12 pm |
|
Quoting catwoman: Whenever Turkey has power over other groups, they use it unethically, they do not behave like the developed world which (according to you) accepts criticism from those who are seen as inferior. |
Hello catwoman
I disagree with this statement. Actually i couldnt understand what you want to say clearly here. Do you want to say Türkiye treat badly to ethnic groups(in history)? If that is the case, i can say surely thats not true. And whos developed world? Do you mean western countries? Are they angels? How did they develope? with blood or colonies or anything else? What do you think about their hypocrite politics? And so on…Just give you a one example of hypocracy about Türkiye, you know France forbid to say there is no Armenian holocaust with laws. Excuse me but you are criticizing Türkiye, at the same time you are praising so-called developed countries here...
|
|
| 284. |
09 Jul 2007 Mon 09:16 pm |
|
Quoting femme_fatal: what does nationalism mean?
does it cover all other minor ethnic groups in turkey or it reffers to only turks themselves? |
Ofcourse it covers all ethnic groups since the turkish people of Anatolia are pretty different from the original turks that began to immigrate from central asie.
The term Turk does not base on any ethnicity, it's an identity given to the people of Turkish nation.
When Atatürk said his famous quote: "Ne mutlu Türküm diyene!" which means "happy is the one that says i am a Turk', he definitely did not base it on ethnicity.
The ethnic minorities defined by the Treaty of Lausanne are the Jewish, Greek and Armenians. All others make up the turkish nation.
|
|
| 285. |
09 Jul 2007 Mon 09:22 pm |
|
it means all those non-turks are encouraged to call themselves turks in order to be happy?
|
|
| 286. |
09 Jul 2007 Mon 09:25 pm |
|
Quoting femme_fatal: it means all those non-turks are encouraged to call themselves turks in order to be happy? |
In order to stay as a united nation, yes. And since it's not an ethnical term, it gives equal rights to all the citizens.
|
|
| 287. |
09 Jul 2007 Mon 10:10 pm |
|
Quoting armegon:
Hello catwoman
I disagree with this statement. Actually i couldnt understand what you want to say clearly here. Do you want to say Türkiye treat badly to ethnic groups(in history)? If that is the case, i can say surely thats not true. And whos developed world? Do you mean western countries? Are they angels? How did they develope? with blood or colonies or anything else? What do you think about their hypocrite politics? And so on…Just give you a one example of hypocracy about Türkiye, you know France forbid to say there is no Armenian holocaust with laws. Excuse me but you are criticizing Türkiye, at the same time you are praising so-called developed countries here... |
No, I didn't say that Western countries don't do anything wrongly. I just said that there are things that they do better. I don't agree with you that Turkey is innocent and a victim of western policies. In my opinion, Turkey sets itself up for certain problems, it refuses to change. This is my opinion and you can disagree.
|
|
| 288. |
09 Jul 2007 Mon 11:59 pm |
|
Quoting catwoman: No, I didn't say that Western countries don't do anything wrongly. I just said that there are things that they do better. I don't agree with you that Turkey is innocent and a victim of western policies. In my opinion, Turkey sets itself up for certain problems, it refuses to change. This is my opinion and you can disagree. |
Yes, i totally disagree. Türkiye does not set itself problems, problems always set up by hypocrite countries’ politics(also by ungratefuls from inside) who seem to be ally to Türkiye, it is clear by history. Türkiye is always denigrated by western politics and media, this is nothing but clear as a day. Their goal is always to divide Türkiye can be seen from history. Let me remind you a few from history which came to my mind instantly, firstly politics; In Lausenne conference, sides were discussing Mosul issue if it was bounded to Türkiye or not. Sides agreed on consulting to the people of Mosul but England disagreed and alleged people of Mosul were illeterate, they did not know their nationality . And when the meetings were continuing, suddenly there had begun a rebellion on South east of Türkiye known as Seyh Sait rebellion today. And Türkiye focused on this rebellion, Mosul left to Englishs and other countries changed their side. Then we learned this rebellion was performed by English instigations what a surprise… Another one from present day all European countries and US declared pkk is a terrorist organisation but whats that we see pkk is using modern weapons which was given by European countries and US, they still say pkk is terrorist organisation but they cannot move their finger to stop the propaganda(media) of pkk in their countries, they are supporting them secretly what a hypocracy…And one from media present day; Oliver Stone and Billy Hayes confessed that Midnight Express is nothing but clear cut lie because of their remorse, but surprisingly we couldnt see any western media showed his declarations except Italian media on the contrary they headlined their newspapers “Midnight Express revisited†when a german boy arrested in Antalya, what a hypocracy huh?...These are the ones which came to my mind spontaneously, and you can be sure that many Turks think exactly like this when they see these hypocracies…So how do you think Türkiye will change ?by dividing?no force can do this, Surely Türkiye always refuses all these lies…So Türkiye does not need advices from so-called imperialists about democracy because they are not trustable sorry...
|
|
| 289. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 12:23 am |
|
it must be really terrible and sad to live in such a fear and a threat that everybody in this world is going to destroy your country. do you really think that eu or usa's aim is so? who feeds you with such info? gov!
its easy to control over the mass giving them made-up enemies. i think its only way to distract your attention from the real problems at home but whispering lies into your ears about the world.
this indeed worked in former soviet union, the gov held poor nation in belief that everyone on this planet wishes a death to a wonderful nation, and esp. of course the main monster was again THE WEST-THE BEAST.
and even some criticisms make out of some TC users turkish haters! unbelievingly naive!
|
|
| 290. |
10 Jul 2007 Tue 12:43 am |
|
Quoting femme_fatal: it must be really terrible and sad to live in such a fear and a threat that everybody in this world is going to destroy your country. do you really think that eu or usa's aim is so? who feeds you with such info? gov! |
No fear dearest femme_fatal, i only share my opinions about their hypocracy politics and nobody feeds me with this infos except history and the politics and im a good reader of history every source from all kinds. Im sure you heard about Sevr, and look at today maps about Türkiye on Europe, you can understand what i mean, just 2 days ago shown in a conference in Greece and Türkiye condemned these officially… We do not make enemies, they choose us as enemy to reach their goals. What do you think about big middle-east project which claims to change the map of middle-east…
Quoting femme_fatal: and even some criticisms make out of some TC users turkish haters! unbelievingly naive! |
Sorry but i did not call anyone Turkish hater here, i only criticized opinions not people if these sentence said against me…
|
|
|
