Turkey |
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Armenians-Turks
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| 10. |
14 Oct 2007 Sun 02:15 pm |
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Quoting thehandsom: Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting Müjde:
AAA but we are Turks we are always guilty!!!!!!! |
oh, poor you! |
femme you are using the wrong tube here..
O2 is written on that tube, 'NOT CO2'
I personally think, we Turks should get into bottom of this for once and all by opening every single archive and giving historians access to them. They should make the decision.
Otherwise, the subject will keep coming back again and again. |
We have been calling whole world to open every single archive in the world about turks and armenians. but some countries are not interested in historical truthes, they just care about politics, they never accepted this idea of turkey. at first every country have to look their own history not others. I really wonder why some countries, accepted 1915 events as a genocide, do not talk about Khojaly (Hocalı Genocide that Azerbaijani ppl killed by armenians??? Khojaly Genocide is not an old event. it was in 1992. USA or other states dont talk about this coz they cant get anythink if they accept this event as a genocide but Armeian groups have power! it s said 1,300 civilians were killed in khojali!!!
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| 11. |
14 Oct 2007 Sun 03:04 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting Müjde:
AAA but we are Turks we are always guilty!!!!!!! |
oh, poor you! |
WHAT A DEEP COMMNENT!WELLDONE...
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| 12. |
14 Oct 2007 Sun 03:06 pm |
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It is very interesting.
The problem will never go away because there are people who make a lot of money out of being lobbyists for the Armenian side. This is their professional job. For example if I write anything pro-Turkish in my book reviews on Sundays Zaman newspaper (even if the books was nothing to do with Armenian issue) I get mail from Armenian lobbyists saying how can I like Turkey as a foreigner, etc etc and these letters sound exactly like the ones this guy quotes here.
My friend Charlotte McPherson, who does the culture spot on the expat page on Todays Zaman 4 days a week gets exactly the same.
My friend Bea Vanni who writes a wonderful blog on Turkey (www.remarkablesolutionsblog.com) gets the same. She is a bit more agressive and writes sometimes about the Armenian question. Then she gets abusive mail calling her "a whore of the Turkish government" etc.
So, as 3 fairly neutral westerners, who are trying to have an open mind about the issue , we get beaten up by one side but not by the other.
So I conclude:
1. One side is determined not to let the issue go
2. The other (Turkey) would be very wise to ACTIVELY PUSH for an international investigation from a body like the United Nations to look at THE EVIDENCE ON BOTH SIDES.
3. They also would be wise to say the Modern Turkish Democratic Republic is no more responsible for what the Ottoman Empire did (as it is a new nation) than the German people of today are responsible for Hitler, UK people are responsible for atrocities of British Empire, Americans for atrocities against Native Americans etc.
(WOW: No 3 will probably get a lot of angry responses, but what the heck! I will also say that I understand from historical evidence that a lot of the killing in the South East was not done by Ottoman army, but by Kurdish warlords, and the Ottoman army just turned a blind eye and let one of their enemies destroy the other one.)
Atatürk said Yurtta sulh, Cihanda sulh - peace at home and peace in the world. I hope Turkey's politicians will pursue the best policy to achieve this is relation to this Q
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| 13. |
14 Oct 2007 Sun 03:40 pm |
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Thanks Marion;
It s true, Armenian groups work behind the scenes very well but they are trying to write a history from their side and using policians. I believe that one day everything will be clear because "Cheats never prosper"
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| 14. |
14 Oct 2007 Sun 03:59 pm |
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http://mindprod.com/politics/iraqwarpix.html
http://fotogaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/galeridetay.aspx?cid=6754&rid=2
US's Genocide still continues..
"Genocide" is just only belong to USA.. armenian genocide is an imperialist lie..
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| 15. |
14 Oct 2007 Sun 04:13 pm |
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Quoting MarioninTurkey: It is very interesting.
The problem will never go away because there are people who make a lot of money out of being lobbyists for the Armenian side. This is their professional job. For example if I write anything pro-Turkish in my book reviews on Sundays Zaman newspaper (even if the books was nothing to do with Armenian issue) I get mail from Armenian lobbyists saying how can I like Turkey as a foreigner, etc etc and these letters sound exactly like the ones this guy quotes here.
My friend Charlotte McPherson, who does the culture spot on the expat page on Todays Zaman 4 days a week gets exactly the same.
My friend Bea Vanni who writes a wonderful blog on Turkey (www.remarkablesolutionsblog.com) gets the same. She is a bit more agressive and writes sometimes about the Armenian question. Then she gets abusive mail calling her "a whore of the Turkish government" etc.
So, as 3 fairly neutral westerners, who are trying to have an open mind about the issue , we get beaten up by one side but not by the other.
So I conclude:
1. One side is determined not to let the issue go
2. The other (Turkey) would be very wise to ACTIVELY PUSH for an international investigation from a body like the United Nations to look at THE EVIDENCE ON BOTH SIDES.
3. They also would be wise to say the Modern Turkish Democratic Republic is no more responsible for what the Ottoman Empire did (as it is a new nation) than the German people of today are responsible for Hitler, UK people are responsible for atrocities of British Empire, Americans for atrocities against Native Americans etc.
(WOW: No 3 will probably get a lot of angry responses, but what the heck! I will also say that I understand from historical evidence that a lot of the killing in the South East was not done by Turkish army, but by Kurdish warlords, and the Turkish army just turned a blind eye and let one of their enemies destroy the other one.)
Atatürk said Yurtta sulh, Cihanda sulh - peace at home and peace in the world. I hope Turkey's politicians will pursue the best policy to achieve this is relation to this Q
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They are wise comments Marion.
Turkey always had two thesis (or what to do) about the issue:
-The first was to deny everything.
-And the second was, if the first option becomes unbearable,
insisting on the issue that we are a new republic established at 1923.
(I am not making them up by the way. I read this many many years ago. It was from Bulent Ecevit)
We made some mistakes in the past by not opening our archives and not letting people talk about it. And I am hoping that we will be much more open about the issue. But of course it is just a hope. Racists elements in Turkish politics have been quite strong since 1980. They somehow always prevented it discussed freely. Killing H Dink and blocking a meeting attended by both sides should be taken seriously.
So resolving this issue might take a little while.
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| 16. |
14 Oct 2007 Sun 08:00 pm |
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Very interesting Marion. I didn't know they went that far with harassing people. It appears Turkish politicians may have underestimated the persistence, organization and vitriol of the "Armenian genocide" activists. Most Americans are totally ignorant of the issue and don't find it important enough to pursue. Even then at that, in watching this issue unfold for a few years, I am amazed at how sources (wikipedia) has been edited in favor of the Armenian and Kurdish separatist interests. It is almost a daily event. There is a proliferation of websites advocating the Armenian side.
The issue of others making money off of the issue is serious, but there is another issue and that is one of territory and assets. It seems there are some who even go so far as to claim the Sevr Treaty is still valid.
As always, there is a convergence of interests. Some are up front and visible, some are not. If you look at just what territory they are interested in, you will notice it takes in some very valuable property. Very importantly are Lake Van,the headwaters of the Tigris and Euphrates, which both the Armenian interests and Kurdish separatists have laid claim to.
This is an important issue that has to be dealt with. It's like a gangrenous sore that is infecting the whole body.
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| 17. |
14 Oct 2007 Sun 08:47 pm |
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Quoting MarioninTurkey: It is very interesting.
The problem will never go away because there are people who make a lot of money out of being lobbyists for the Armenian side. This is their professional job. For example if I write anything pro-Turkish in my book reviews on Sundays Zaman newspaper (even if the books was nothing to do with Armenian issue) I get mail from Armenian lobbyists saying how can I like Turkey as a foreigner, etc etc and these letters sound exactly like the ones this guy quotes here.(...)
So, as 3 fairly neutral westerners, who are trying to have an open mind about the issue , we get beaten up by one side but not by the other. |
I don't have an opinion about this issue in terms of who's right and who's wrong, but I'm wondering - Marionin, you wrote that when you write pro-Turkish reviews you get emails from Armenian lobbyists. I'm wondering what would happen if you wrote something pro-Armenian, do you think that you wouldn't get any angry emails from the Turkish side?
This issue is very strange... In the simplest form, you have a historical event in which under the Ottoman rule, lots of Armenian people died. Whether it's a genocide or not, who knows. However, if something like that would happen to any other nation, I wonder if that nation would just let it go without anybody at least taking responsibility and apologizing for it. I agree that Turkish people shouldn't be burdened with the mistakes of Ottomans, but if that's also what they think, why do they have a problem admitting the mistakes of Ottomans? I see absolutely no reason why they should give land to anybody.
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| 18. |
14 Oct 2007 Sun 09:07 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting MarioninTurkey: It is very interesting.
The problem will never go away because there are people who make a lot of money out of being lobbyists for the Armenian side. This is their professional job. For example if I write anything pro-Turkish in my book reviews on Sundays Zaman newspaper (even if the books was nothing to do with Armenian issue) I get mail from Armenian lobbyists saying how can I like Turkey as a foreigner, etc etc and these letters sound exactly like the ones this guy quotes here.(...)
So, as 3 fairly neutral westerners, who are trying to have an open mind about the issue , we get beaten up by one side but not by the other. |
I don't have an opinion about this issue in terms of who's right and who's wrong, but I'm wondering - Marionin, you wrote that when you write pro-Turkish reviews you get emails from Armenian lobbyists. I'm wondering what would happen if you wrote something pro-Armenian, do you think that you wouldn't get any angry emails from the Turkish side?
This issue is very strange... In the simplest form, you have a historical event in which under the Ottoman rule, lots of Armenian people died. Whether it's a genocide or not, who knows. However, if something like that would happen to any other nation, I wonder if that nation would just let it go without anybody at least taking responsibility and apologizing for it. I agree that Turkish people shouldn't be burdened with the mistakes of Ottomans, but if that's also what they think, why do they have a problem admitting the mistakes of Ottomans? I see absolutely no reason why they should give land to anybody. |
we are not escaping from our history. we are proud of ottoman history also. we are ready to discuss with historical documents not only with ottoman archives. All of the archieves about this event. Turkish republic is always calling whole world to discuss this with historians. Armenians dont want to open archives and argue this because they know some truthes and in real they are escaping...
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| 20. |
14 Oct 2007 Sun 10:53 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Having been away a few days, I must admit I am suprised to see that there has NOT been deep discussion about the subjects floading our news lately. Have the topics been deleted? 
Where is discussion about the Turkish government's request to send the Turkish Army into northern Iraq?
Where is discussion about US House of Representative's vote on Armenians?
Is this it?!?!?!
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Well now you are back, perhaps you would like to start a new thread? to satisfy your suprise!
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