Turkey |
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Armenians-Turks
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| 100. |
16 Oct 2007 Tue 02:06 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting Serdar07: Quoting MrX67: thats better to take peace pens to write a new history then to stuck on past.To look for who was true and who was right in the past makes bigger to problems and creats new nationalist waves.... |
Sure that's the right mission for those who are really in need for peace. |
i knew you two were twins  |
Very nice feeling I am happy with your words
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| 101. |
16 Oct 2007 Tue 02:08 pm |
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Quoting Serdar07: Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting Serdar07: Quoting MrX67: thats better to take peace pens to write a new history then to stuck on past.To look for who was true and who was right in the past makes bigger to problems and creats new nationalist waves.... |
Sure that's the right mission for those who are really in need for peace. |
i knew you two were twins |
Very nice feeling I am happy with your words |
its so easy to make you happy
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| 102. |
16 Oct 2007 Tue 03:12 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting thehandsom:
-We know that many Turks and many many Armenians died.
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can you come out with any statistics of "many turks died"?
how come so many people die during one march? why did it take so many lives and so many months? in fact it wasnt a long distance.
i know you will stand in defence of turkey not the justice in any case.
the truth is: turks were afraid of the growing number of armenians and decided to decrease it. turks have been decreasing the number of other ethnicities constantly throughout centuries. the proof is the visible shrinking groups of other ELEMENTS (vineyards call them so). changing names and surnames into muslim in fear of persecution and jizia etc etc.
well, you can still justify all these attrocities changing the subject into america and europe. when we talk of this you cant straightly say : yes, lets talk it, but you say look at how america is evil, europe is evil.
all you say is : we should open the archives!
but it is always abonded on this level, no other step taken, just words. |
I am not sure you can find reliable statistics about it..But I remember around 200.000..I might be completely wrong..I will investigate and write here.
I am not trying to justify any atrocities at all. I am criticizing Turkey for it, I am criticizing nationalistic elements in Turkey for not being open enough for it.
I am not sure you are right about "turks have been decreasing the number of other ethnicities constantly throughout centuries". Ottomans did not have strong nationalistic views until mid 1800. Then, racist ideas were rising at the time. They mainly conquered and got their taxes. They were not much into changing their religions or changing their nationalities.
If it was true, how come many nations emerged after Ottoman Empire?
But after after beginning of the last century, yes you are right on that..We forced them to leave from Turkey.. Mainly greeks though. And at some stages we exchanged people with Greece.
About mentioning usa and europe: I was not using america and europe as evils and trying to change the focus from ermenian question to western war crimes..
I was just trying to say the moral difficulty a person must be feeling if that person does not open his mouth for the war crimes, or supports them.
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| 103. |
16 Oct 2007 Tue 03:26 pm |
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Quoting si++:
Muslim and Armenians were killing each other, Ottomans decided to relocate the Armenians to save their lives(A good intention) |
A BAD INTENTION to pretend it never happened and try to say it was for "their own good". I wonder if the Armenians see it that way?
Quoting si++:
American took their decision of dropping atomic bombs targeting to kill as many civilians as possible |
At least the US don't deny it happened! Its so typical of Turks to avoid questions about their wrong-doings and just find wrong-doings from other countries as their "defence" 
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| 104. |
16 Oct 2007 Tue 03:49 pm |
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femme and thehandsome. On Dardanelles front alone some 250.000 Turkish soldiers lost their lives. The Ottoman Empire was attacked on almost all its fronts and had to deal with a chain of revolts provoked primarily by the UK and Russia. The number of casualties was so large that the medical faculty in Istanbul could not graduate any students for a couple of years since all of its students had died on the fronts.
Ottoman Empire:
Total casualties :1.550.000
Breakdown:
Dardanelles: 253896
Caucasian front: 270.000
Gulf theater: 220.000
Arabia and Yemen: 280.000
The Canal front: 280.000
Iranian front:20.000
Galicia-Bulgaria: 60.000
After the war, the male population decreased significantly and many women could not find husbands. Folk songs that remained from those days tell us about people rushing to fronts never to come back again. In some cities, when no eligible people were available for recruiting to the army they began recruiting 13 year olds. All of this happened in a very short period of time and at a time when the economy was at the brink of bankruptcy due to excessive foreign debts.
Turkish people did not actually want to join the war. The reasons came out of the blue due to Enver Pasha's excessive fondness of the Germans. He wanted to act together with them hoping to restore the country's economy with German help.
On the whole it was a war of total destruction for Turks. It meant long years of deprivation, poverty and misery. The soldiers were inadequately outfitted. They were deployed to the Caucasian front in their summer uniforms and majority of them died freezing rather than by the enemy bullet.
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| 105. |
16 Oct 2007 Tue 03:54 pm |
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Very informative, Vineyard!
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| 106. |
16 Oct 2007 Tue 04:15 pm |
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what i dont understand is why people here do not question what armenian state did in eastern Turkey before and after so called genocide? my father comes from Van - east of Turkey...and some of my relatives were killed by armenian soldiers. Thousands of people were killed, some of women were raped by armenian soldiers.does it give me right to claim that Armenia did genocide in eastern Turkey?..you speak like armenians were very poor innocent people and suddenly Ottoman attacked and killed them. of course i am ashamed of what ottoman did to them..but they did the same to us..why we are the only blamed one?
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| 107. |
16 Oct 2007 Tue 04:18 pm |
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http://www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr/english/intro/index.html history science so relative and when you try to prove ur intellectualism with historical documents i think thats creat only new hates and hostilities sometime,why we don't try to make more peacfull to new generations for filling their minds with the history's sad events????????Lets plant friendship,forgiveness and love seeds on life garden instead of revenge,hate and enmity seeds....
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| 108. |
16 Oct 2007 Tue 04:54 pm |
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Quoting ciko: ..you speak like armenians were very poor innocent people and suddenly Ottoman attacked and killed them. of course i am ashamed of what ottoman did to them..but they did the same to us..why we are the only blamed one? |
because the winners write the history books!!!
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| 109. |
16 Oct 2007 Tue 04:59 pm |
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and has anyone seen any war which made in love?thats opposite of war's nature,so we each one very resposnsible on our each words for don't be reason of new ones..!!
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| 110. |
16 Oct 2007 Tue 05:07 pm |
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Quoting KeithL: Quoting ciko: ..you speak like armenians were very poor innocent people and suddenly Ottoman attacked and killed them. of course i am ashamed of what ottoman did to them..but they did the same to us..why we are the only blamed one? |
because the winners write the history books!!! |
who won?
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