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Armenians-Turks
(249 Messages in 25 pages - View all)
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30.       yilgun-7
1326 posts
 15 Oct 2007 Mon 02:03 am

Are you a historian?
Have you seen these events?
If you are not historian so you should read and learn the real world history and the plain truths.
Dont read false political stuff ...
Read real historians and scientists and their real historical documents...
This is my personal advice...

31.       kaddersokak
130 posts
 15 Oct 2007 Mon 02:37 am

Quoting yilgun-7:

Are you a historian?
Have you seen these events?
If you are not historian so you should read and learn the real world history and the plain truths.
Dont read false political stuff ...
Read real historians and scientists and their real historical documents...
this is my advice...



I am not a historian and I did not see those incidents? Have you?

Who are the real historians? Those who agree with official Turkish thesis? and for the Armenians, the real historians are the ones who prove Genocide. So?

"Read real historians and scientists"
I did not know scientists have been dealing with this issue.

And let me tell you a last thing: states show only the historical documents that prove their positions and they have the power to hide or destroy the others. All the states, not only Turkey and Armenia, do that. And unfortunately,no historical information is value free and independent from politics.




32.       yilgun-7
1326 posts
 15 Oct 2007 Mon 02:51 am

yes you are right...ı am not a historian, a prime minister or a foreign minister.I only read the real history books and real documents...According to real history, there is no genocide in the Turkish history...

33.       Trudy
7887 posts
 15 Oct 2007 Mon 07:23 am

Quoting yilgun-7:

yes you are right...ı am not a historian, a prime minister or a foreign minister.I only read the real history books and real documents...According to real history, there is no genocide in the Turkish history...



Just one question: who decides if books describe 'real' history?

34.       vineyards
1954 posts
 15 Oct 2007 Mon 10:08 am

There is a common prejudice about all things Turkish. In many major international conflicts all the world got together and formed an allied front against Turkey. Ultimately beginning from 1071 when Turks entered Asia Minor and then when they captured Istanbul in 1453 they were regarded by Europeans as the common enemy. Consequently, any non Turkish elements existing within them were considered as the natural allies of the West. Greeks were the heroes of Lord Byron who regarded their country as the cradle of civilization and dedicated some of his best poems to urge the West to come to help of Greece to aid its war of independence. Lawrence of Arabia stirred conflicts in the Middle East shedding Turkish blood in attempt to turn Arabic clans into a nation in line with the expectations of his native country to architect a complex system involving tens of weak artificial countries that would remain in a state of constant conflict. Islamic fundementalism was a naturally existing weapon which was used to start revolts or destroy order whenever it was needed. (e.g. Kut war, Afghanistan, Invasion of Iraq).
Russians and Armenians due to religious and cultural reasons collaborated during the invasion of our country by Russian troops. They had been active both before and during the invasion through country wide political organizations the most notable of which was the Tashnak party whose ultimate goal was establishing an Armenian state in Anatolia. After this point no body knows what exactly happened there are claims about Turks forcing Armenians to leave the region which caused many of them to lose their lives as a result of weeks of relentless walking in bad weather. There are further claims blaming Armenian gangs of raiding Turkish towns and killing hundreds of civilians in some cases gathering them in mosques and burning them. There are all sorts of claims from both sides which are equally terrifying.


I as a citizen of this country neither approve of nor support the killing of civilians and would be very ashamed if anyone of my ancestors did anything like that. Nevertheless, we are not certain about exactly what happened there. It is easy to rave about historical events basing on fragments of knowledge. Aram and Mehmet lived on the same soil for nearly a thousand years. They were both humans and it must be equally saddening to hear what they suffered in the past. We cannot turn a deaf ear to the complaints of one and support the other unconditionally. We must leave the task of finding out what really happened there to historians. We have no better alternative than that.

35.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 15 Oct 2007 Mon 11:09 am

Quoting yilgun-7:

Are you a historian?
Have you seen these events?
If you are not historian so you should read and learn the real world history and the plain truths.
Dont read false political stuff ...
Read real historians and scientists and their real historical documents...
This is my personal advice...


Are you a historian?
Have you seen these events?
If you are not historian so you should read and learn the real world history and the plain truths.
Dont read false political stuff ...
Read real historians and scientists and their real historical documents...
This is my personal advice...

36.       yilgun-7
1326 posts
 15 Oct 2007 Mon 02:06 pm

Please read and analyze JUSTIN MCCARTY books and articles on the Russian Armenians and the Russian Army against the Ottoman Empire and Turkish People and the real massacre in 1915..

And see "The Other Side of the Falsified Genocide"...

JUSTIN MCCARTY is an author and historian and university professor in the USA.

And read Dr.CAROLINE FINKEL, an American -the USA- historian on Ottoman Empire...And read the other real historians.

Dont read the false and lie political and unfair thesis.

Please read these real historians and scientists if you want to learn real history and real historic documents...

If you go to Türkiye visit eastern Türkiye, visit Iğdır, Ağrı, Van, Erzurum and other cities...You will see a munument and its museum in IĞDIR city...This is a massacre monument.This is the biggest monument of the world...There are a lot of monument tombs in this districts.

The real history, the monuments, the tombs, the historical documents, the scientific rsearches and the historic books and the Russians officers memories show you and tell you clearly that the the Russian Armenians had killed too many thousants innocent old people, women, children, babies under the Russian Army support in 1915 unfortunately.This is a HUMANITY CRIME.

Then the Turkish Army had come to this districts and won the war against these terrorist groups.Getting the enemy and traitorous and necessary measures is not murder according to the international law and diplomacy and humanity philosophy...

And there is no any genocide in the whole Turkish History.The Turks are noble people...

"THE ENEMY OF THE TURKS ARE THE ENEMY OF THE MANKIND"...

37.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 15 Oct 2007 Mon 02:08 pm

Quoting yilgun-7:


"THE ENEMY OF THE TURKS ARE THE ENEMY OF THE MANKIND"...


who are they? who are the turks' enemies?

38.       yilgun-7
1326 posts
 15 Oct 2007 Mon 02:26 pm

"THE ENEMY OF THE TURKS ARE THE ENEMY OF THE MANKIND"...
We know the answer of this question exactly...
The history knows the answer very well.
Read the real world history.
It is clear.

39.       femme_fatal
0 posts
 15 Oct 2007 Mon 02:46 pm

Quoting yilgun-7:

"THE ENEMY OF THE TURKS ARE THE ENEMY OF THE MANKIND"...
We know the answer of this question exactly...
The history knows the answer very well.
Read the real world history.
It is clear.


so who are they?
give that exactly answer, yilgin!
we are interested in your exact answer! share with us the REAL history that we DONT know.
from your post above it is NOT clear.

40.       vineyards
1954 posts
 15 Oct 2007 Mon 02:53 pm

Yilgun, if you did not include that final statement in your article, some of your readers would get curious about the sources that you referred to. Claiming that the enemy of the Turks are the enemy of the entire world is not only wrong but also utterly ridiculous.

Did everyone base their arguments on nationalistic feelings, there would be no need for science at all. We all want to get rid of the patriotic aspects of history and favour scientific objectivity instead, no matter how difficult to achieve in real life that would be.

If we were to write history with a notion like yours, what difference would there be between that and the legends or annals of the distant past?

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