Turkey |
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Armenians-Turks
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| 50. |
15 Oct 2007 Mon 08:15 pm |
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Quoting teaschip1: Quoting MrX67: we r the citizens of a great country which has a password ''PEACE İN COUNTRY ,PEACE ON WORLD',so who are blaming us with genocide they have to look at theirs today,such a shame to blamed from some countries with a humanity crime while their backrounds full with many tears and bloods????Yes Genocide is a humanity crime and noone never can deny of that,but whats the profit of to creat new discussions and to creat new strong nationalist behaviours?so everyone have to be a bit calm and have to think abit more while talking about history,we all have to work for only peace,no need to be history scientist ,to be a bit loving will fix all problems...... |
To compare the Armenian Genocide of 1915, to the INVASION of another country (Iraq) is plain idiotic…
How is it different? Because, for one, Americans can speak up about the deaths in Iraq. We can freely congregate, protest, call our reps, demand something (even if we don’t get it and the senseless war contines). It’s different because in Turkey, unless you deny the genocide, you’re suspect of anti-Turkish sentiment. Freedom, freedom of thought, of debate, of rage, of resolution. That’s the difference.
Come one for God’s sake.. we’re talking about a genocide here! Put politics aside and take the humanistic step. When is it gonna be a good time to recognize the genocide one wonders? This has been going on for years. It’s never a good time?
There should never be an excuse for denying a painful genocide. If the Germans were denying the Holocaust, it would literally be the same as helping them cover it up and disrespecting millions of people just for our own agenda. Its plain immoral and wrong.
Turkey has already alienated Canada & France and every other country that has called this tragedy a genocide. America will soon be the next, I'm afraid to say...
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| 51. |
15 Oct 2007 Mon 08:18 pm |
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Quoting teaschip1: Why is it significant whether the US government “condemns†the slaughter of 1.5 million Armenians?
It is significant because to this day, while most of the rest of the world acknowledges the historical truth of the Armenian Genocide, Turkey continues to deny that it happened......
Denial is the last and final stage of Genocide. To allow a country such as Turkey to rewrite history and deny the truth on a matter of such great magnitude is to allow those who would commit atrocities in places like Darfur to believe that they can get away with their evil. Hitler looked back at the Armenian Genocide and said, “Who today remembers the annihilation of the Armenians?â€
To me the question is Turkey, really, what’s the problem with admitting it was a genocide? It’s not like Japan went under when it admitted the horrendous things they did to the Korean, Chinese, and Japanese “comfort women†from WWII.
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Teaschip1....
I edited your very long message...
1 It's not any of our business. Let Turkey and Armenia figure it out.
2 The fact is that all the facts are NOT known.
3 Turkey is being asked to just accept the matter based on reportings from only one side of the matter, not both sides.
This is NOT a simple issue, it's very complicated. This was during WWI when 20 million people died in the conflict...not only Armenians who sided with Russia and fought against the Ottomans.
Not a few "Armenian Genocide" websites are calling the Treaty of Sèvres binding. That would make the Treaty of Lausanne invlaid. Making the Treaty of Lausanne invalid would seriously compromise the Republic of Turkey.
Perhaps you are not aware of the fact that this is stage one of asking for repatriations and concession of Turkish territory. It is a push towards the institution of the Greater Armenia.
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| 52. |
15 Oct 2007 Mon 08:22 pm |
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"Turkey has already alienated Canada & France and every other country that has called this tragedy a genocide. America will soon be the next, I'm afraid to say..."
you should think the opposite too. France and Canada and now US have alienated Turkish society and they make Turkish people more nationalist. Pelase read my previous post.
By the way , if not Genocide, we should find another term to call the tragedy in Iraq in which more than 2 million people died.
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| 53. |
15 Oct 2007 Mon 08:27 pm |
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Quoting alameda: Quoting teaschip1: Why is it significant whether the US government “condemns†the slaughter of 1.5 million Armenians?
It is significant because to this day, while most of the rest of the world acknowledges the historical truth of the Armenian Genocide, Turkey continues to deny that it happened......
Denial is the last and final stage of Genocide. To allow a country such as Turkey to rewrite history and deny the truth on a matter of such great magnitude is to allow those who would commit atrocities in places like Darfur to believe that they can get away with their evil. Hitler looked back at the Armenian Genocide and said, “Who today remembers the annihilation of the Armenians?â€
To me the question is Turkey, really, what’s the problem with admitting it was a genocide? It’s not like Japan went under when it admitted the horrendous things they did to the Korean, Chinese, and Japanese “comfort women†from WWII.
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Teaschip1....
I edited your very long message...
1 It's not any of our business. Let Turkey and Armenia figure it out.
2 The fact is that all the facts are NOT known.
3 Turkey is being asked to just accept the matter based on reportings from only one side of the matter, not both sides.
This is NOT a simple issue, it's very complicated. This was during WWI when 20 million people died in the conflict...not only Armenians who sided with Russia and fought against the Ottomans.
Not a few "Armenian Genocide" websites are calling the Treaty of Sèvres binding. That would make the Treaty of Lausanne invlaid. Making the Treaty of Lausanne invalid would seriously compromise the Republic of Turkey.
Perhaps you are not aware of the fact that this is stage one of asking for repatriations and concession of Turkish territory. It is a push towards the institution of the Greater Armenia.
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"None of my business" and who nominated you the TC police here. You know nothing about my heritage or personal life, so please don't assume I have nothing to do with Turkey or Armenians. This is a public forum and I have every right to give my opinion. I see you never took your etiquette class yet. Not every American is ignorant you would like to think and stated regarding this subject.
I happen to have friends who are Turkish who live here in the states and also are ashamed of Turkey's stand on the geonicide. Thankfully, they are in a country which allows for their opinion to be heard not imprisioned.
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| 54. |
15 Oct 2007 Mon 08:40 pm |
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Quoting kaddersokak: "Turkey has already alienated Canada & France and every other country that has called this tragedy a genocide. America will soon be the next, I'm afraid to say..."
you should think the opposite too. France and Canada and now US have alienated Turkish society and they make Turkish people more nationalist. Pelase read my previous post.
By the way , if not Genocide, we should find another term to call the tragedy in Iraq in which more than 2 million people died. |
2 million, not sure what media or newspaper your reading. But I will agree alot of people have died in Iraq, including our own. The difference is we are not in denial over here. How about "Massacre", would Turkey admit to it then?
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| 55. |
15 Oct 2007 Mon 08:47 pm |
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"None of my business" and who nominated you the TC police here."
I said it is none of our business...meaning the US government's business.
" You know nothing about my heritage or personal life, so
please don't assume I have nothing to do with Turkey or Armenians."
Your personal life is not the issue, International relations is the issue. As to your personal heritage or personal life. I don't know anything about it, and I don't care to. It is not the issue here.
"This is a public forum and I have every right to give my opinion. I see you never took your etiquette class yet."
I never stated you have no right to give your opinion. It seems nobody could stop you from inflicting your opinions anyway. Personal opinion is the problem. How about analysis based on a study of all sides of the issue? Hmmm...personal attacks....?
'Not every American is ignorant you would like to think and stated regarding this subject."
I did not say every American is ignorant, but most are quite uneducated regarding history, geography and international relations...and that's a fact.
"I happen to have friends who are Turkish who live here in the states and also are ashamed of Turkey's stand on the geonicide. Thankfully, they are in a country which allows for their opinion to be heard not imprisioned."
Like the free speach in designated "free speach zones"? You have gotten personal. I'm talking about cold facts. In the US we have more than enough issues to deal with. We don't need to be the World Police.
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| 56. |
15 Oct 2007 Mon 08:58 pm |
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I can see how you must really get your use out of the modify and quote button here. World police? For making a stance against geonicide, finally. Yes, you probably also agree the U.S. should have turned the other way for those poor Jewish people too.
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| 57. |
15 Oct 2007 Mon 09:03 pm |
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Quoting teaschip1: Yes, you probably also agree the U.S. should have turned the other way for those poor Jewish people too. |
Good point (may I also mention that it was NOT just the US who fought for jews in that war!!!). The allies had been fighting for years before the US decided to join in (only after they were directly attacked themselves!) so don't try and tell me it was all about saving the "poor jews".
And now - its about time that the US had the guts to stand up to Jews now!
US politicians are too scared to denounce what is happening in Israel and actively support Israeli settlements in Palastinian land for fear of losing the valuable US/Jewish vote.
Its NOT ok for them to privately support Jimmy Carter but publically support Israel!
Anyway, I have gone off-topic!
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| 58. |
15 Oct 2007 Mon 10:21 pm |
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Quoting vineyards: I am ashamed of all the mistakes (possible and actual) of my ancestors but I think I cannot be held responsible for the sins they committed in a world full of sins everywhere. |
Aenigma asked for wine, well let us drink a beer, because I agree with you too. Also my ancesters made awful mistakes I'm ashamed of and I also think that feeling that and admitting their mistakes does not make me as a person responsible for what happened decades or centuries ago. However, admitting these awful things happened is, to me, the first step to the truth. I wished there were more like you Vineyards, who could do so.
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| 59. |
15 Oct 2007 Mon 10:27 pm |
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of all countries, I find it ironic that the U.S. feels the need to weigh in on this issue. The genocide against native americans is one of the most brutal and most documented chapters in American history. I think America should deal with its own past before meddling into this complicated matter...
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| 60. |
15 Oct 2007 Mon 10:41 pm |
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Quoting KeithL: of all countries, I find it ironic that the U.S. feels the need to weigh in on this issue. The genocide against native americans is one of the most brutal and most documented chapters in American history. I think America should deal with its own past before meddling into this complicated matter... |
does america deny it? or hide? everyone knows what happened to native americans, even you keith 
and its not closed, there are lots works done on this subject, movies shut. and no american says "its not true, or its a mistake of our ancestors, lets forget".
theres a difference between these two issues.
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