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headscarf was still a social problem
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| 210. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 12:43 am |
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There are guys, usually very old and half blind, in front of Saudi mosques.
If it is prayer time, they invite passers bye inside the mosque to join the prayers. They do have small sticks in their hands which they may ocassionally wave in threatening modes...but they are usually so old that there is no real forcing involved.
I think Saudis call them MUTAVVA.
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| 211. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 12:47 am |
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Okay I have not heard of that before and it's definitely taking the concept of dawah too far. The point is to offer people guidance, certainly not threat them 
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| 212. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 12:47 am |
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in Turkish only
http://www.diplomatikgozlem.com/haber_oku.asp?id=399
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| 213. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 12:55 am |
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I dont know if it is still the case, but during pray times nobody is allowed to walk on the street..
The guys I saw with batons, were pretty young and wearing police uniforms.
I was trying to avoid going to the town because of that reason..
But, I got caught several times during shopping and the car was far away (when you are in the car and if the car is moving, you are fine-it is considered 'kaza' I think..I am not sure though-)and then, 'peacefully' I was invited to the most important mosque of islamic world for praying. 
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| 215. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 12:58 am |
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Quoting azade: Okay I have not heard of that before and it's definitely taking the concept of dawah too far. The point is to offer people guidance, certainly not threat them |
What is the concept of dawah?  To convert the world into islam, by "offering them guidance"? 
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| 216. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 01:08 am |
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Quoting Roswitha: in Turkish only
http://www.diplomatikgozlem.com/haber_oku.asp?id=399 |
Roswitha, dear friend !
I can not honestly see how lady lawyers educated abroad can be of any use in Saudi public life. The country is run by sheria laws, which have distinct differences to what is taught in law schools, say in USA. I am not sure if a degree from Egypt can be, somewhat, more useful.
One field of possible activity can be in cases related with international contracts Saudis have with other countries, if such contracts stipulate that disputes under these contracts, if any, shall be resolved in some Western country.
Does anyone else need Saudi lady lawyers?...America?, Britain?
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| 217. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 01:16 am |
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Well yes, dawah can be to introduce people to islam with hopes of them converting, but at the same time in islam as a religion there is no compulsion which is unfortunately sometimes ignored like thehandsom made an example of. I don't think the salah even counts if it is performed because of compulsion. Islam says that Allah knows the intention in the heart so it is always important to have the right (= a genuine) intention when performing salah. In today's society there are some muslims who are devoted to spread general information and make discussions to restore islam's reputation.
But I think most commonly dawah is used to encourage and guide fellow muslims and help them if they have an inquiry.
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| 218. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 01:17 am |
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Quoting thehandsom: I dont know if it is still the case, but during pray times nobody is allowed to walk on the street..
The guys I saw with batons, were pretty young and wearing police uniforms.
I was trying to avoid going to the town because of that reason..
But, I got caught several times during shopping and the car was far away (when you are in the car and if the car is moving, you are fine-it is considered 'kaza' I think..I am not sure though-)and then, 'peacefully' I was invited to the most important mosque of islamic world for praying.
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Yes, the reports of the Mutawa in Saudi are pretty horrific. They are the ones responsible for the tragedy a few years ago when the girls school was on fire and the forced the girls back in because they were "uncovered".
They enforce the Wahabbi brand of Sharia...which is the most narrow version.
"Mutaween in Saudi Arabia
Main article: Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice
The Mutaween in Saudi Arabia are tasked with enforcing Sharia as defined by the government, specifically by the Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (CPVPV). The Mutaween of the CPVPV is comprised of "more than 3,500 officers in addition to thousands of volunteers...often accompanied by a police escort." They have the power to arrest unrelated males and females caught socializing, any one engaged in homosexual behavior or prostitution; to enforce Islamic dress-codes, and store closures during the prayer time. They enforce Muslim dietary laws, prohibiting the consumption or sale of alcoholic beverages and pork, and seize banned consumer products and media regarded as un-Islamic (such as CDs/DVDs of various Western musical groups, television shows and film). Additionally, they actively prevent the practice or proselytizing of other religions within Saudi Arabia, where such a thing is banned.
Among the things the Mutaween have been criticized or ridiculed for include, use of flogging to punish violators, banning Valentines Day gifts, arresting priests for saying Mass,[13] and being staffed by "ex-convicts whose only job qualification was that they had memorized the Quran in order to reduce their sentences."
Perhaps the most serious and widely criticized incident attributed to them occurred on March 11, 2002, when they prevented schoolgirls from escaping a burning school in Mecca, because the girls were not wearing headscarves and abayas (black robes). Fifteen girls died and 50 were injured as a result. Widespread public criticism followed, both internationally and within Saudi Arabia itself."
Mutaween in Saudi Arabia
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| 219. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 01:29 am |
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what an inhumane, horrific act! Thanks for sharing.
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| 220. |
17 Jan 2008 Thu 01:36 am |
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The mutavvas are generally funny, but can become a real nuisance for Resident Engineers running construction contracts in Saudi Arabia.
It is necessary - for certain reasons- that the direction of Mecca should be established before any construction project is kicked off, and a permanent marking monument be kept on site, for everybody's refence.
The duty to check the correctness of these monuments belong to Mutavva.
A good Resident Engineer who has the necessary equipment asks his surveyor to measure the angles and prepare the necessary monument, in advance.
Then arrives the 100 years old Mutavva, who is absolutely blind, to check and verify the monument.
The old Mutavva will have absolutely no respect for modern surveying equipment nor for topographical engineers. He will insist the direction he shows by his right hand is the correct one, regardless of what survey results indicate.
Mutavvas instructions are verbal (no records), But the RE is of course ultimately responsible.
If the survey result and Mutavva's instruction do not match, they all have a ball until the difference is resolved, and the construction may wait for the whole period.
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