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Turkey ranks low in world gender equality index
(152 Messages in 16 pages - View all)
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10.       anka
207 posts
 12 Nov 2008 Wed 06:15 pm

 

Quoting Merih

 Well, I don´t think the number of senators in the parliament shows the equality of men and women.. I think it is deep inside.  Like, if the women is working, equal with men, the same salaries and same positions, and when she comes back home, while the husband is lying down and watching the TV after a long working day and she is cooking dinner, washing the dishes, and blah blah, can you really say there is equality?

 

I think equality does not mean what we think.. if you were to put 2 glasses on the table and fill them with different amounts of water, then you can talk about not being equal.. But women and men are different, their natures, strengths and weaknesses are different.. i think the real equality is if you have power and influence in what you are strong at, and let the stronger get the lead for your weaknesses.

 

 Nice explanation. I agree with every word of Merih´s quote. Things are more complicated in such a matter, i wonder how they researched this...

11.       teaschip
3870 posts
 12 Nov 2008 Wed 06:21 pm

 

Quoting zettea

=) And this brings us to the ban on headscarfs which prevents prospective successful and career-minded women from pursuing tertiary education to build a successful career..

 

lol lets just stop right here on the headscarf topic

 

 I don´t think it prevents anyone from getting an education.  So they ban headscarfs, well if that´s your reason for not getting an education that is your choice.  People need to take personal responsibility for their own actions.  What about getting a degree online?  That way you don´t even need to leave your house.{#lang_emotions_unsure}

12.       cedars
235 posts
 12 Nov 2008 Wed 06:22 pm

 

Quoting zettea

=) And this brings us to the ban on headscarfs which prevents prospective successful and career-minded women from pursuing tertiary education to build a successful career..

 

lol lets just stop right here on the headscarf topic

 

 

 lol,  may be if they did a simple correlation test between wearing the scarf and the index of the country in question, they will have a 99% correlation.

As the saying goes : Torture numbers, and they´ll confess to anything!

 

13.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 12 Nov 2008 Wed 06:26 pm

Ofcourse things between genderrelations are much more complex than a ´simple survey´ shows. However, the participation of women in education, higher education, graduates, work, high positions in companies and politics, can reflect a lot about society (not about personal happiness) and our perception of that society.

 

Studies have shown that a higher participation of women in high functions of a company, generally make the succesrate of that company higher, because the way men and women make decisions and behave in discussions, is different. Here they complement each other which gives a better outcome for the company. (I am sorry, I dont remember where I read this, it must have been a newspaper, so I cant give any references.).

 

Obtaining more females in higher positions, asks for better and broader education of females. A woman who is educated, has seen studentlife and has been ´pushed´ to think on an academic level, is in my opinion more confident and knows more about herself, what she wants and needs. I think this does result in personal happiness, also in marital spheres.

 

(I do not mean to say that this is a privilige for women who have the capacity of studying in higher education. I feel this way about all sorts of activities that bring women in social and public life. I used that example in combination with the successrate at a compnay).

14.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 12 Nov 2008 Wed 06:38 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

 I don´t think it prevents anyone from getting an education.  So they ban headscarfs, well if that´s your reason for not getting an education that is your choice.  People need to take personal responsibility for their own actions.  What about getting a degree online?  That way you don´t even need to leave your house.{#lang_emotions_unsure}

 

 It DOES prevent people from getting an education. There may be a whole lot of religious families for whom it is already a big step that they let their daughter study (yes this in itself should be changed, but things dont go overnight, and it is a good progress that conservative families let their daughters participate in education as well). You can understand that for a family for who it is already hard to make such a decision, this might be the factor that makes them decide not to send their daughter to school. Another notion: a degree online generally is much more expensive than going to a state-sponsored school. You should keep in mind that the majority of Turkey isn´t very wealthy. And I think you forget the age that people generally go to university. ´Your choice´ is easy to say, but many people at the age of 18 are still financially dependent on their parents and tehrefore are not able to make a 100% independent choice.

 

Your view is way too simplistic. A lot needs to be changed in Turkish society before any person at that age to be fully ´responsible for own actions´.

 

And besides all this, the headscarf ban is just discrimination. There is no law that prohibits any woman with a headscarf to go to university. However, there are vague laws about the prohibition of political signs. These days the debate of headscavres isnt just about putting it on, it is about HOW you put it on {#lang_emotions_you_crazy} The idea is that the way some headscarves are put on, represent Islamic political thoughts. I find this absurd. It may be true, but in that case you ban people from education because they have ´dissident opinions´ on politics. That sounds very dictatorial! And the religious devout guys, apparantly are allowed to have ´dissident opinions´, because they are not denied the right for education.

15.       teaschip
3870 posts
 12 Nov 2008 Wed 07:48 pm

 

Quoting Deli_kizin

 It DOES prevent people from getting an education. There may be a whole lot of religious families for whom it is already a big step that they let their daughter study (yes this in itself should be changed, but things dont go overnight, and it is a good progress that conservative families let their daughters participate in education as well). You can understand that for a family for who it is already hard to make such a decision, this might be the factor that makes them decide not to send their daughter to school. Another notion: a degree online generally is much more expensive than going to a state-sponsored school. You should keep in mind that the majority of Turkey isn´t very wealthy. And I think you forget the age that people generally go to university. ´Your choice´ is easy to say, but many people at the age of 18 are still financially dependent on their parents and tehrefore are not able to make a 100% independent choice.

 

Your view is way too simplistic. A lot needs to be changed in Turkish society before any person at that age to be fully ´responsible for own actions´.

 

And besides all this, the headscarf ban is just discrimination. There is no law that prohibits any woman with a headscarf to go to university. However, there are vague laws about the prohibition of political signs. These days the debate of headscavres isnt just about putting it on, it is about HOW you put it on {#lang_emotions_you_crazy} The idea is that the way some headscarves are put on, represent Islamic political thoughts. I find this absurd. It may be true, but in that case you ban people from education because they have ´dissident opinions´ on politics. That sounds very dictatorial! And the religious devout guys, apparantly are allowed to have ´dissident opinions´, because they are not denied the right for education.

 

 Then it sounds like to me there are bigger issues here than a headscarf.  If families are in the mind set that they have to contemplate whether they will let their daughter have an education in the first place, then those behaviours are a big contributer to the equality problems Turkey faces.  I think the headscarf issue is just a small part of this.

16.       Merih
933 posts
 12 Nov 2008 Wed 07:52 pm

 

Quoting Deli_kizin

Ofcourse things between genderrelations are much more complex than a ´simple survey´ shows. However, the participation of women in education, higher education, graduates, work, high positions in companies and politics, can reflect a lot about society (not about personal happiness) and our perception of that society.

 

Studies have shown that a higher participation of women in high functions of a company, generally make the succesrate of that company higher, because the way men and women make decisions and behave in discussions, is different. Here they complement each other which gives a better outcome for the company. (I am sorry, I dont remember where I read this, it must have been a newspaper, so I cant give any references.).

 

Obtaining more females in higher positions, asks for better and broader education of females. A woman who is educated, has seen studentlife and has been ´pushed´ to think on an academic level, is in my opinion more confident and knows more about herself, what she wants and needs. I think this does result in personal happiness, also in marital spheres.

 

(I do not mean to say that this is a privilige for women who have the capacity of studying in higher education. I feel this way about all sorts of activities that bring women in social and public life. I used that example in combination with the successrate at a compnay).

 

Well, I agree that women should be if possible higher educated.. but the thing is, the women loose the purpose of working easily.  Most of the women are very ambitious to be successful. (By the way i am basically talking about the poor ranking countries).  They want to do what men do and the family´s are getting ruined at the end.. A female CEO of a company most of the times forget that she is a wife and a mum at the same time.  And she doesn´t and SHOULDN´t have the luxury to leave everything to a maid, or a grandmother.  She is the vital part of a child and a marriage life, and she has to be there to wake up the child, or give breakfast, or help with a homework.  She needs to give attention to her husband.

 

The man is lucky in this sense, as the nature of life is like that.  There is a work share for everyone.  Though I guess it is okay, if you can carry out your responsibilities, and do something on the top, without letting off your main responsibilities (but isn´t it too much).

 

May be some of the ladies will get angry with me.  But to tell the truth, though the said countries have the top rankings, the very same countries suffer lack of family bonds, loneliness, suicides, etc... Because the scoiety becomes selfish.. money becomes everything.. everybody pays for themselves.. when you are 18, you are out of the house, or you pay rent..  You are in trouble, sorry, take care of yourself.

 

Final word: Did you know that a mum´s cuddle is almost affective as a painkiller?

17.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 12 Nov 2008 Wed 07:54 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

 Then it sounds like to me there are bigger issues here than a headscarf.  If families are in the mind set that they have to contemplate whether they will let their daughter have an education in the first place, then those behaviours are a big contributer to the equality problems Turkey faces.  I think the headscarf issue is just a small part of this.

 

 There are bigger issues. Doesn´t mean that the headscarf issue doesnt need to be solved quickly. The example I gave why your idea isnt applicable to all of Turkey, was related to other factors as well, not only the conservative families in (mainly) rural areas (where also boys cant take education for granted). But the headscarf issue in itself, is also a problem in the cities and it is causing a conflict among population that doesn´t need to be there.

18.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 12 Nov 2008 Wed 07:54 pm

 

Quoting Merih

Well, I agree that women should be if possible higher educated.. but the thing is, the women loose the purpose of working easily.  Most of the women are very ambitious to be successful. (By the way i am basically talking about the poor ranking countries).  They want to do what men do and the family´s are getting ruined at the end.. A female CEO of a company most of the times forget that she is a wife and a mum at the same time.  And she doesn´t and SHOULDN´t have the luxury to leave everything to a maid, or a grandmother.  She is the vital part of a child and a marriage life, and she has to be there to wake up the child, or give breakfast, or help with a homework.  She needs to give attention to her husband.

 

The man is lucky in this sense, as the nature of life is like that.  There is a work share for everyone.  Though I guess it is okay, if you can carry out your responsibilities, and do something on the top, without letting off your main responsibilities (but isn´t it too much).

 

May be some of the ladies will get angry with me.  But to tell the truth, though the said countries have the top rankings, the very same countries suffer lack of family bonds, loneliness, suicides, etc... Because the scoiety becomes selfish.. money becomes everything.. everybody pays for themselves.. when you are 18, you are out of the house, or you pay rent..  You are in trouble, sorry, take care of yourself.

 

Final word: Did you know that a mum´s cuddle is almost affective as a painkiller?

 

OMG Merih.  I don´t know where to begin answering this post!!!!

It is very very sexist!!!

I will leave this one to Catwoman lol

 

19.       Merih
933 posts
 12 Nov 2008 Wed 07:56 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

OMG Merih.  I don´t know where to begin answering this post!!!!

It is very very sexist!!!

I will leave this one to Catwoman lol

 

 By the way, I am a educated woman too..

20.       Merih
933 posts
 12 Nov 2008 Wed 08:01 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

OMG Merih.  I don´t know where to begin answering this post!!!!

It is very very sexist!!!

I will leave this one to Catwoman lol

 

 Dear Aenigma,

 

First of all, I was talking about the low ranking countries.

 

Secondly I am coming from a family of working women for more than 3 generations in Turkey now..  And you know, it just doesn´t work in Turkey, My mum suffered because her mum was working, I suffered because my mum was working, and even my kids suffered a little until I realised that I should be there for them.

 

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