Turkey |
|
|
|
Turkish intellectuals issue apology to Armenians
|
70. |
19 Dec 2008 Fri 10:05 am |
that doesn`t make sense at all. If you apologize for something, that means you`re guilty of that thing, so you agreed that you`re guilty by signing that petition.
Exactly. If it is reworded as "we are sorry for ...." then those who signed could be excused.
Who has to apologize here? First the imperial powers have to apologize for causing those tragedies between two nations who lived together in peace for more than 8 centuries.
|
|
71. |
19 Dec 2008 Fri 11:13 am |
This is the wording in English
My conscience does not accept the insensitivity showed to and the denial of the Great Catastrophe that the Ottoman Armenians were subjected to in 1915. I reject this injustice and for my share, I empathize with the feelings and pain of my Armenian brothers and sisters. I apologize to them.
This is the wording for ´my friends´ to sign it:
My conscience does not accept the insensitivity (BECAUSE I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE OTHERS) showed to and the denial of the Great Catastrophe that the Ottoman Armenians were subjected to in 1915. I DO NOT reject this injustice (BECAUSE I WAS TAUGHT THAT WAY and MY ANCESTORS WERE HEROS; THEY CAN NOT BE MURDERERS) and for my share, I CAN NOT empathize (BECAUSE THEY TOLD ME SO) with the feelings and pain of my Armenian brothers and sisters (BECAUSE I DO NOT CARE) . SO I CAN NOT apologize to them.
|
|
72. |
19 Dec 2008 Fri 12:11 pm |
This is the wording in English
My conscience does not accept the insensitivity showed to and the denial of the Great Catastrophe that the Ottoman Armenians were subjected to in 1915. I reject this injustice and for my share, I empathize with the feelings and pain of my Armenian brothers and sisters. I apologize to them.
This is the wording for ´my friends´ to sign it:
My conscience does not accept the insensitivity (BECAUSE I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE OTHERS) showed to and the denial of the Great Catastrophe that the Ottoman Armenians were subjected to in 1915. I DO NOT reject this injustice (BECAUSE I WAS TAUGHT THAT WAY and MY ANCESTORS WERE HEROS; THEY CAN NOT BE MURDERERS) and for my share, I CAN NOT empathize (BECAUSE THEY TOLD ME SO) with the feelings and pain of my Armenian brothers and sisters (BECAUSE I DO NOT CARE) . SO I CAN NOT apologize to them.
Site name reads "I apologize". Why should I apologize? I can only be sorry at most. Those who caused that tragedy must apologize.
|
|
73. |
22 Dec 2008 Mon 07:23 am |
Remember Titanic, remember how people thought about saving their lives first at the expense of others including women and small children. Remember how the blue collar boat crew in addition to second class passengers were locked behind bars and denied access to life boats. When a ship is about to sink people do things they wouldn´t otherwise...
.
I just saw on TV the grandson of a Finnish 3rd class passenger on the Titanic relating how she described the voyage. No mention of what you discribe, where did you hear it? But it underscores that it is hard to be sure what really happened in 1915. American and British journalists were expected to "support the War effort" with their writing.
I was 12 or 13 years old when "Lawrence of Arabia" the movie came out. I liked it so much that I read both of Thomeas Edward Lawrences books. (about 1000 pages).. But now I realize that most of the trouble in the Middle East is his fault. That maybe if the Ottomans had retained the region, that there would be no Israel, no hamas, no hizbollah, and 9-11 would have never happened.
Thomas Edward Lawrence was very dilusioned by what happened in the Middle East after WWI. He more or less went quietely insane and basically commited suicide on a motorcycle.
|
|
74. |
22 Dec 2008 Mon 07:48 am |
This is the wording in English
My conscience does not accept the insensitivity showed to and the denial of the Great Catastrophe that the Ottoman Armenians were subjected to in 1915. I reject this injustice and for my share, I empathize with the feelings and pain of my Armenian brothers and sisters. I apologize to them.
This is the wording for ´my friends´ to sign it:
This means this invitation concerns your friends; so no problem then!
|
|
75. |
22 Dec 2008 Mon 12:38 pm |
And you really really surprised me with this
 
Thank you, it´s nice to get flowers from you. 
I don´t really get all the fuss going on about this subject in Turkey. The people who signed it have been declared like traitors or the worst people. What if some people feel like saying sorry, the ones who do not feel like just do not need to sign it, it has not been signed in the name of all people, it is something personal. About this subject, I agree with Abdullah Gül, they have just used their freedom of expression.
|
|
76. |
22 Dec 2008 Mon 01:03 pm |
I just saw on TV the grandson of a Finnish 3rd class passenger on the Titanic relating how she described the voyage. No mention of what you discribe, where did you hear it? But it underscores that it is hard to be sure what really happened in 1915. American and British journalists were expected to "support the War effort" with their writing.
I was 12 or 13 years old when "Lawrence of Arabia" the movie came out. I liked it so much that I read both of Thomeas Edward Lawrences books. (about 1000 pages).. But now I realize that most of the trouble in the Middle East is his fault. That maybe if the Ottomans had retained the region, that there would be no Israel, no hamas, no hizbollah, and 9-11 would have never happened.
Thomas Edward Lawrence was very dilusioned by what happened in the Middle East after WWI. He more or less went quietely insane and basically commited suicide on a motorcycle.
Great post - my thoughts exactly! Bu arada, TE Lawrence became a sapik! After being nearly flogged to death during his capture, he became addicted to it and paid men to flog him for sexual kicks!
|
|
77. |
22 Dec 2008 Mon 01:33 pm |
I just saw on TV the grandson of a Finnish 3rd class passenger on the Titanic relating how she described the voyage. No mention of what you discribe, where did you hear it? But it underscores that it is hard to be sure what really happened in 1915. American and British journalists were expected to "support the War effort" with their writing.
We surely can´t know exactly what happened on such a big boat like the Titanic. Thousands of people were involved and the size of the vessel that went through the tragedy was not smaller than a village with so many floors, rooms, aisles, decks forming a labyrinth of steel structure.
Of course, I based my observation on the recent movie on the incident. Admittedly, it cannot be a true representation of what happened in 1915. I would also expect witnesses to be concerned with what was happening to them rather than others when the ship was sinking.
Keeping in mind that the Titanic was a metaphor rather than the subject itself, I can provide two supportive arguments one from the story of a famous Turkish wrestler Koca Yusuf (The Terrible Turk) an interesting story about an unbelievably huge and strong Turkish wrestler who got killed in a ship disaster in the middle of the Atlantic on his way back home. He was said to be wearing a belt filled with gold he had won in the US. He tries to climb to a life boat but other passengers fear that such a huge man would capsize the boat and they begin hitting on his hands with a hammer one of them happened to have. This is the story left in my mind you can browse the net for the details.
There are also paragraphs in some psychology books that describes the behaviour of the passengers on a boat or a plane. Although passengers seem to be happy when everything is normal, they are actually very alert about a possible danger. Once something goes wrong and a life threatening danger is expected they begin to lose control. They have heart attacks, nervous break downs but until that moment they usually do even the most unacceptable things just to save their lives...
|
|
78. |
22 Dec 2008 Mon 01:37 pm |
About this subject, I agree with Abdullah Gül, they have just used their freedom of expression.
Can I use my freedom of expression in France?
|
|
79. |
22 Dec 2008 Mon 01:41 pm |
Can I use my freedom of expression in France?
That is France´s problem..
|
|
80. |
22 Dec 2008 Mon 01:43 pm |
Great post - my thoughts exactly! Bu arada, TE Lawrence became a sapik! After being nearly flogged to death during his capture, he became addicted to it and paid men to flog him for sexual kicks!
I remember an expert`s proving that his claim in his book that he was raped by a Turkish colonel in a fortress somewhere in Arabia was just one of his sexual fantasies because in fact he never went to that fortress.
but history is written by these arsholes just because they are on the side of the strong.
|
|
|