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20.       tunci
7149 posts
 15 Dec 2011 Thu 07:18 pm

 

Quoting lemon

 

 

Sure, you can be patriotic and loyal to your country and a national hero Ataturk. Thousands of Turks are born and die everyday. Is that a sense of your whole life? Is it the whole meaning? You will die like your ancestors died, they too lived and had causes to live for. Did your ancestors before Ataturk say Ne Mutlu Türküm diyene ! ? Before they became Turks?

Were you born to be a Turk and serve the ideology of Turkishness? Or were you born to be a human being wanting to serve God and only Him? Because He created you for Himself.

Does whatever you do satisfy to its full meaning? Well, lets say you die under a flag of Turkey defending your country, what happens next? You join heavenly Turkey? Is there a continuation of what we have today?

You often repeat things and ideas you were raised with since you remember yourself. You were bombarded with patriotic spirit in your family, school, work, books, papers, films, songs, poems, art. Wherever you went it was the same thing that filled your life. What is your uniqueness? Who are you? Where are you heading? What will happen to you?

What happens if you find out that you are armenian? or jewish or arab?


 

 

 After your Judgements , I am more proud of being a Turk. Open your eyes and reread my post.You are asking who am I , Dont worry I know who am I. But seems like you are the one who doesnt know who he/she is. 

If you had read my post you would see the answer of that question.

Only one question for you ;

Why is that you suddenly appear when there is a subject that critisizing , blaming Turkish or Turkiye ? Is that your mission or what ? If it is , my friend, then you are in the wrong path..

I repeat again, No matter what nationality [jew,arab,armenian,german,papua new gineu..] people come from, If they feel like-they belong to Turkish nation , then He/She is Turkish.  I know  you cant understand this unless you change your judgemantel mind.

stumpy and acute liked this message
21.       acute
202 posts
 15 Dec 2011 Thu 08:21 pm

Sometimes people just have to move on. Recanting  an historical event is like  listening to 5 people arguing at a kitchen table about what just happened before the pot of soup fell off the stove.

There will be many offers of explanations, many stories and many perspective views offered, whether right or wrong  the pot of soup is on still on the floor.

Same with genocide issues and past historical fights/wars/threats.

Most people try to solve these issues in the terms of a reconciliation which are influenced as two person model of thinking ( reestablishment of  harmony )

When you have an argument with a person you love do you continue for the rest of your life throwing darts at them about a particular issue or do you learn to move on.

Reconcilliation is measured very differently when you ask someone  what they want or how they want something corrected/ fixed / compensated. Therefore what has been done is done whether right or wrong.

Everyone should be proud of who they are and know that what they do today in actions and in thinking will mold the children of the future.

HIstory and reports and situations are faulty at the best of time as we all want to look either very good or the victum.

lets not be victums now by being idiots and  fighting each other with harsh and hostile words

Everyday is a new world , how do you want to contribute?



Edited (12/15/2011) by acute

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22.       lemon
1374 posts
 15 Dec 2011 Thu 09:32 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

 After your Judgements , I am more proud of being a Turk. Open your eyes and reread my post.You are asking who am I , Dont worry I know who am I. But seems like you are the one who doesnt know who he/she is. 

If you had read my post you would see the answer of that question.

Only one question for you ;

Why is that you suddenly appear when there is a subject that critisizing , blaming Turkish or Turkiye ? Is that your mission or what ? If it is , my friend, then you are in the wrong path..

I repeat again, No matter what nationality [jew,arab,armenian,german,papua new gineu..] people come from, If they feel like-they belong to Turkish nation , then He/She is Turkish.  I know  you cant understand this unless you change your judgemantel mind.

 

What judgements dear child?

I care less if you write on your forehead TURK and tattoed whole of your body with Turkish flag and the image of Ataturk. These things are your god apparently. After all why not boast and explode? 

I know exactly who I am. I belong to Gods Kingdom because I am saved by the holy blood of Christ. And His Kingdom is not from this earth. And I know where exactly I am heading after this life, to His Great Judgement.

I appear whenever I want to appear since I am not fond of threads like: what music do you like? what best turkish music? or what do you eat or dress?

My mission is to speak what I have on my mind.

If Turks never killed or didnt commit a genocide on Armenians then why worry and keep defending yourselves? If I had my heart clean and feel no guilt I wouldnt look for justification, I wouldnt create thousands of websites and post documents with no proof of its existence. I wouldnt even pay attention.

All such actions prove otherwise.

The difference between me and you is that you talk of your god that is called turkey and I talk of my God who is almighty and giver of love and salvation.

You talk earthly and I talk heavenly. You will never be able to understand because you were always seeing carnal that is no hope and will be rotten. as all things will perish.

I can understand you and know what you feel. Been there. But I have hope for I was blessed to understand the beforetaste of Gods grace.

You are blind, you cannot see more and above. You are limitted. You are in a box, a prison of yourself.

 

23.       acute
202 posts
 15 Dec 2011 Thu 10:03 pm

 

Quoting lemon

 

 

You talk earthly and I talk heavenly. You will never be able to understand because you were always seeing carnal that is no hope and will be rotten. as all things will perish.

I can understand you and know what you feel. Been there. But I have hope for I was blessed to understand the beforetaste of Gods grace.

You are blind, you cannot see more and above. You are limitted. You are in a box, a prison of yourself.

 

 

Lemon I hate to be the bearer of bad news but  if you had any idea about theology you would not be so noble in your limited understanding of christianity.

Christianity was a derritive of Judaism a split because at one time you had to be Jewish and believe in the jewish faith in order to be christian. It was Paul not Jesus who established the faith and broke into new theological ground by establishing faith as the essential componet of salvation rather than personal fullillment  in one´s life which was part of Jewish Law. Under Pauls  direction  he made a new Christian faith by laying claim to it being universal. Also the arguments  of Chistiology - was Jesu a man, was he truly biologically conceived and born of a virgin ( again this was claimed almost 400 years after his birth ) Did God come first and then creat Jesus does that make Jesus number 2. and many more still exist today. Bible could just be a good novel or a poorly written one also

This nonsense was the cause of many military conflicts and divided people which sparked civil death for the first 3 centuries. All old history and ideas. Actually Christianity had no official legal status and was considered only a movement during this time. If you look at the three major religions. Judaisim, Christianity and Islamism all have many common strengths and many common stories and adaptations. And they all believe in the same God. There have been many scriptures not accepted. So if you think because Tunci says he is a proud Turk he  has limitations and  has boxed himself in.  I dont´ agree.
Think again about your claim and fame to Chistianity it is a dead over done religion and change more often than the sheets in a poor whore house.

Try to study more perhaps Marcionism or Arianism( Arius c 250-335 ) theologian who was born in Libya and educated in Antioch )



Edited (12/15/2011) by acute
Edited (12/15/2011) by acute
Edited (12/15/2011) by acute

24.       tunci
7149 posts
 15 Dec 2011 Thu 10:08 pm

 

Quoting lemon

 

 

What judgements dear child?

I care less if you write on your forehead TURK and tattoed whole of your body with Turkish flag and the image of Ataturk. JUDGMENT --->These things are your god apparently. After all why not boast and explode? 

I know exactly who I am. I belong to Gods Kingdom because I am saved by the holy blood of Christ. And His Kingdom is not from this earth. And I know where exactly I am heading after this life, to His Great Judgement.

I appear whenever I want to appear since I am not fond of threads like: what music do you like? what best turkish music? or what do you eat or dress?

My mission is to speak what I have on my mind.

If Turks never killed or didnt commit a genocide on Armenians then why worry and keep defending yourselves? If I had my heart clean and feel no guilt I wouldnt look for justification, I wouldnt create thousands of websites and post documents with no proof of its existence. I wouldnt even pay attention.

All such actions prove otherwise.

The difference between me and you is that JUDGMENT ---> you talk of your god that is called turkey and I talk of my God who is almighty and giver of love and salvation.

You talk earthly and I talk heavenly. You will never be able to understand because you were always seeing carnal that is no hope and will be rotten. as all things will perish.

I can understand you and know what you feel. Been there. But I have hope for I was blessed to understand the beforetaste of Gods grace.

JUDGMENT -->You are blind, JUDGMENT you cannot see more and above. JUDGMENT -->You are limitted. JUDGMENT -->You are in a box, a prison of yourself.

 

 

 I want to start my words by saying you can know a person from its fruits..

  You keep contradicting yourself.

 I believe in One God  and I dont put anything or anyone in God´s place.

I dont think Christ is happy with your aggressive way of sharing His gospel.

I dont think Christ is happy with your JUDGEMENTS..

Let me remind you one of the essential command of Jesus in Bible ;

DO NOT JUDGE OTHERS... DO NOT JUDGE OTHERS... shall I say one more time ? or am I talking to a brick wall ?

You are talking about LOVE , but I cant see any love or affection in your words..

You are suppossed to be Light and Salt for this world as a Christian, all I can see from you is Accusing words ..

I dont think you are belong to God´s Kingdom... For In God´s Kingdom there is ;

a. unlimited love

b. forgiveness

c. compassion

d. affection

e. feeling sorry for others

***************************************************************

 



Edited (12/15/2011) by tunci

25.       lemon
1374 posts
 16 Dec 2011 Fri 10:33 am

No, Tnuci, your God is Ataturk and Turkey. Why I say so? Because you spend hundreds of time thinking about him and your country. You dedicate almost your entire life and all your heart for the causes of the patriotic ideologies.Your posts are the witness to it.

Your posts are about turkishness and never about God. Your praises are directed to turkishness and not towards God.

And I am not your judge. The judge is God. Bible judges you, not me. I just repeat after Bible. These are not my thoughts, because He hates idolatry. Idolatry can be anything. Anything that you give your heart more than to God your creator, is an idol.

So idol can be your friend whom you love so much, it can be yourself, it can be your parents, country, food, expensive car, drugs, ideology. Everything!

Tunci, you live one life. And its not about living it decently. It is about living it for God, to please Him. It is devoting your heart to Him above all traditions and expectations of people.

I told you that there is no Turkey on the other side of death. There is no patriotism. There is only God and His great love.

26.       lemon
1374 posts
 16 Dec 2011 Fri 11:10 am

 

Quoting acute

 

 

Lemon I hate to be the bearer of bad news but  if you had any idea about theology you would not be so noble in your limited understanding of christianity.

Christianity was a derritive of Judaism a split because at one time you had to be Jewish and believe in the jewish faith in order to be christian. It was Paul not Jesus who established the faith and broke into new theological ground by establishing faith as the essential componet of salvation rather than personal fullillment  in one´s life which was part of Jewish Law. Under Pauls  direction  he made a new Christian faith by laying claim to it being universal. Also the arguments  of Chistiology - was Jesu a man, was he truly biologically conceived and born of a virgin ( again this was claimed almost 400 years after his birth ) Did God come first and then creat Jesus does that make Jesus number 2. and many more still exist today. Bible could just be a good novel or a poorly written one also

This nonsense was the cause of many military conflicts and divided people which sparked civil death for the first 3 centuries. All old history and ideas. Actually Christianity had no official legal status and was considered only a movement during this time. If you look at the three major religions. Judaisim, Christianity and Islamism all have many common strengths and many common stories and adaptations. And they all believe in the same God. There have been many scriptures not accepted. So if you think because Tunci says he is a proud Turk he  has limitations and  has boxed himself in.  I dont´ agree.
Think again about your claim and fame to Chistianity it is a dead over done religion and change more often than the sheets in a poor whore house.

Try to study more perhaps Marcionism or Arianism( Arius c 250-335 ) theologian who was born in Libya and educated in Antioch )

 

Acute,

In the beginning God created heaven and earth. This same God destroyed sending flood. This God also chose Abraham who wasnt a Jew.

Jewish nation starts from Israel. You know who Israel is, right?

So God created for Himself a new nation out of one line. Multiplied them and gave commandments. He also promised to bring Savior from Jewish nation to the whole world. So He did.

Paul was sent to pagans by Christ. He was a well known and respected pharisee before Christ called him. He dedicated his entire life to serve Christ, he was beaten, jailed, suffered all sort of things in the end he was executed. Why would anyone devote his entire life to bring Good News if he himself a Jew? Why would he refuse his nice life of a noble man from a noble family, a roman citizen? Why doesnt he have a comfortable life just being saved himself and his fellow countrymen? Why bother and risk your life going out to unknown nations and rebuke them for their sins and turn away from their idols?

After all Paul didnt enjoy the wealth of this world neither had a family happy life. He lost everything.

Usually false prophets risk their lives to gain popularity along all its gifts of earthly life. Take any of them. Sai baba e.g. Or Muhammed. They lived a good life. They had power, they had wealth, they had women.

The true messengers put their lives for God, they ignore their needs, they see no value in earthly things, they are not attached to the happiness of this life.

None of the apostles survived persecution except John whom Christ kept in the island of Patmos from where he constantly wrote letters to churches in Turkey. He too had no personal life.

They didnt start wars, they didnt take part in wars. All they did was spreading Good News.

 

The crusade wars you talk about is the continuation of roman empire and its politics. It desperately needed to expand and protect its territory.

Jesus never was a part of politics nor he was interested in military actions. Read New Testament and you will see that the true Christianity is about losing, giving, suffering for grace and NEVER using power or starting wars or even defending yourself.

Jesus says turn your other cheek, give your clothe away, pray for and bless your enemies.

So dear Acute, I invite first to read Bible before you judge God Almighty. How do you judge Paul or Christianity if you have never read Bible?

Its like I criticise a film without seeing it or reading just someone else´s references?

Be honest and sincere. Do not think that you are wiser than the Bible or followers of it. Put all your prejudices away and sincerely do a research.

I question everything. Do you?

 

27.       acute
202 posts
 16 Dec 2011 Fri 11:50 am

Actually I have read the bible completely and I still frown upon words made by man. It is all heresay and not correct. As I said the bible text has change many times. Things omitted things deleted things added just like a the script of a movie. Live as you wish but don´t make yourself out to be any better than any other  person who thinks differently from you. Allow them to think as they wish without your insults. You may disagree with them and you are entitled to disagree and say you disagree and your thoughts as to why and don´t slam dunk another person with insults. Just say you disagree , say your point or belief and move on. Quit trying to justify your lifestyle your choices  by saying demeaning remarks who don´t agrre with your thoughts or lifestyle. And quit trying to be a judge of anothers charactor with your bible thumping charade it just isn´t working.

28.       si++
3785 posts
 16 Dec 2011 Fri 12:37 pm

 

Quoting lemon

 

 

If Turks never killed or didnt commit a genocide on Armenians then why worry and keep defending yourselves? If I had my heart clean and feel no guilt I wouldnt look for justification, I wouldnt create thousands of websites and post documents with no proof of its existence. I wouldnt even pay attention.

All such actions prove otherwise.

 

Come on lemon, if you know something about the issue share with us here.

What makes you think that we worry for it?

 

French parliament are about the legistlate a law that punish those who deny the "so-called" genocide for example? Should I worry? No not at all. I hope they pass it. They will only belittle themselves.

Every year we hear the news that US parliament will recognise the "so-called" genocide. I hope they do it. They will only belittle themselves.

 

I hope they do it, really. But then again based on what will they do it? What do they know? Where are the proofs?

29.       lemon
1374 posts
 16 Dec 2011 Fri 01:08 pm

 

Quoting acute

Actually I have read the bible completely and I still frown upon words made by man.

No, you never read it.   I am a 100% sure of it.

It is all heresay and not correct. As I said the bible text has change many times. Things omitted things deleted things added just like a the script of a movie.

Then, prove it. Show where exactly it was changed, deleted? Show me the original and then show me the changed versions.

You know I love checking, questioning and searching. If I say this is correct and this is incorrect then I must have something in my hand to prove so. Otherwise we all can talk rubbish with nothing to cover our behinds.

Live as you wish but don´t make yourself out to be any better than any other  person who thinks differently from you.

Hey! Wait a minute, I live according to Bible not my own made rules. I am no way better than you or your friend Tunci. I never ever said such a thing. So dont lie pls. I am the same sinner as you are, but I am saved and God looks at me through His Son Jesus. That makes me better not my personality or deeds.

Allow them to think as they wish without your insults. You may disagree with them and you are entitled to disagree and say you disagree and your thoughts as to why and don´t slam dunk another person with insults.

Tunci and other do certainly live the way they want and chose. I am not there to supervise their lives. I disagree and agree, whats the deal?

Just say you disagree , say your point or belief and move on.

Mr Judge and be better than God, I said my point, you said my point. Keep your finger in your pocket. Move on, dear. Please, do not come back to tell me what to do. Move on.

Quit trying to justify your lifestyle your choices  by saying demeaning remarks who don´t agrre with your thoughts or lifestyle.

Quit trying to be more knowledgable than God.

Where do you see any justification? Why should I justify? Whats wrong with it? Have I done anything wrong? Bible says all humans fell short of his grace. And I repeat that. Acute, you cannot be my judge, nor a teacher or judge. Your authority is nothing, You are another man who will die soon and turn into dust. Who are you to question God and His authority? He created everything.

And quit trying to be a judge of anothers charactor with your bible thumping charade it just isn´t working.

I repeat, its not me who is the judge, its God! God says you will all perish, because you have your start and your end. You will die as the way you were born. He judges you!

 

 

30.       lemon
1374 posts
 16 Dec 2011 Fri 01:19 pm

 

Quoting si++

 

Quoting lemon

 

 

If Turks never killed or didnt commit a genocide on Armenians then why worry and keep defending yourselves? If I had my heart clean and feel no guilt I wouldnt look for justification, I wouldnt create thousands of websites and post documents with no proof of its existence. I wouldnt even pay attention.

All such actions prove otherwise.

 

Come on lemon, if you know something about the issue share with us here.

What makes you think that we worry for it?

 

French parliament are about the legistlate a law that punish those who deny the "so-called" genocide for example? Should I worry? No not at all. I hope they pass it. They will only belittle themselves.

Every year we hear the news that US parliament will recognise the "so-called" genocide. I hope they do it. They will only belittle themselves.

 

I hope they do it, really. But then again based on what will they do it? What do they know? Where are the proofs?

 

hahaha You worry. Because you start talking about it. Its turkish wanna-be historians start this, its them write articles. its you and tunci and others write posts to defend yourselves before the world.

why do you feel guilty? why do you try to justify it?

Have you seen any armenian on this website defending their cause? No!

(We never hear armenians starting a trouble over it, we never hear them bombarding articles in newspapers. They are somehow silent.)

Its on and on and on you guys repeatedly washing and wahsing the stubborn stains of the past.

Forgive and go on. We all killed each other in the past. some less some more. Theres no way to go back and fix it, the only cure is to forgive and carry on.

I wish Turkey prosper and seek peace.

 

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