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An apology in Turkey::
(78 Messages in 8 pages - View all)
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30.       lemon
1374 posts
 16 Dec 2011 Fri 01:19 pm

 

Quoting si++

 

Quoting lemon

 

 

If Turks never killed or didnt commit a genocide on Armenians then why worry and keep defending yourselves? If I had my heart clean and feel no guilt I wouldnt look for justification, I wouldnt create thousands of websites and post documents with no proof of its existence. I wouldnt even pay attention.

All such actions prove otherwise.

 

Come on lemon, if you know something about the issue share with us here.

What makes you think that we worry for it?

 

French parliament are about the legistlate a law that punish those who deny the "so-called" genocide for example? Should I worry? No not at all. I hope they pass it. They will only belittle themselves.

Every year we hear the news that US parliament will recognise the "so-called" genocide. I hope they do it. They will only belittle themselves.

 

I hope they do it, really. But then again based on what will they do it? What do they know? Where are the proofs?

 

hahaha You worry. Because you start talking about it. Its turkish wanna-be historians start this, its them write articles. its you and tunci and others write posts to defend yourselves before the world.

why do you feel guilty? why do you try to justify it?

Have you seen any armenian on this website defending their cause? No!

(We never hear armenians starting a trouble over it, we never hear them bombarding articles in newspapers. They are somehow silent.)

Its on and on and on you guys repeatedly washing and wahsing the stubborn stains of the past.

Forgive and go on. We all killed each other in the past. some less some more. Theres no way to go back and fix it, the only cure is to forgive and carry on.

I wish Turkey prosper and seek peace.

 

thehandsom liked this message
31.       si++
3785 posts
 16 Dec 2011 Fri 01:25 pm

 

Quoting lemon

 

 

hahaha You worry. No I don´t. Because you start talking about it. Its turkish wanna-be historians start this, its them write articles. its you and tunci and others write posts to defend yourselves before the world.

why do you feel guilty? why do you try to justify it? No I don´t. It´s just you who think so.

Have you seen any armenian on this website defending their cause? No! Yes I have! Disguised as Turks here and tried to.

(We never hear armenians starting a trouble over it, we never hear them bombarding articles in newspapers. They are somehow silent.)

Its on and on and on you guys repeatedly washing and wahsing the stubborn stains of the past.

Forgive and go on. We all killed each other in the past. some less some more. Theres no way to go back and fix it, the only cure is to forgive and carry on.

I wish Turkey prosper and seek peace.

 

 

You are boring lemon. Stop playing with words and be direct. If you know something please share with us here.

32.       stumpy
638 posts
 16 Dec 2011 Fri 07:21 pm

since this has gone of topic I do not see why I should keep quiet

It is hypocritical to preach that God(the Christian version) is all loving and all caring and all forgiving, benevolant God.  So when a few "loving" quotes are selected from the bible to prove a point then be carefull because there are others out there that are also knowligdable about the bible, some have had to study it for 12 years, this forced upon them by the church and family.

Do you know that the old and new testement are the holy books that have most violence done onto man by God and violence done by man at the "request" of God himself, three times more violence then the Qu´ran.

God has ordered genocides and commited genocides en mass. 

When he ordered that the earth be covered in water to rid it of evil, he basicly commited genocide by allowing Noah and his select few to survive.

When the first borns of Egypt were condemmed to die on passover to force the Fahro to "Let my people go", that is infantecide, ie genocide

When Sodom and Gomorah were sentence for destruction by fire and brimestone... genocide

The bible is a record of war, famine, fire, torture, animal mutilation, infanticide, cannibalism, execution, mutilation, beatings and floggins, plundering, defernestation, hail, poisoning, human sacrifice,earthquakes, earth swalloing people, sexual assault and violent protagonists.

And for all those attroceties this is how god explains it: "This will teach all the churches that I am the searcher of men´s hearts and thoughts, and that I will reward each one of you according to his deeds."

So before anyone can apoligise for what ever reasons have God appoligise for the crimes he commited and the crimes that were and are still being commited in his name, for a true god would not kill or ask man ti kill in his name.  Do not use the bible as a teaching tool for love and tolerance because it is also a tool of hate and intolerance by his own actions.

 



Edited (12/16/2011) by stumpy

acute and Abla liked this message
33.       scalpel
1472 posts
 17 Dec 2011 Sat 12:50 am

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

CAUSE -------------------------------------------> RESULT

Cause = Armenians were provoked by Russians 

Result = Armenian gangs armed by Russian were formed.

----------------------------------------------------------

Cause = Armenian gangs with cooperating Russian started etnic cleansing in the east of Turkey

Result = Many innocent Turks were killed, burned alive in the barns,,[including pregnant women, kids,elderly]

----------------------------------------------------------

Cause = This killings made Ottoman goverment started taking actions [sending there troops, deportation of Armenians.

Result = During this deportation to Syria or other places, because of a long journey some Armenians were killed of sickness...etc..  

-----------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Hocam, here is the summary of what you said: they deserved what they got.. I have an objection at this point.. In that conflict, The Ottoman government did not treat its subjects with equal concern and respect.. They took the Turkish/muslim side.. and the Armenians / christians were driven out and uprooted from their own lands.. if there was any ethnic cleansing at that period of time, it was carried out by the Turkish side against Armenians..  

"They stabbed us from back and we made them pay for their treachery.. it was they who started the war, not us.. blah blah " are nothing but empty words.. and they don´t justify what Turks did to Armenians..  

 



Edited (12/17/2011) by scalpel

lemon liked this message
34.       tunci
7149 posts
 17 Dec 2011 Sat 01:04 am

 

Quoting scalpel

 

 

Hocam, here is the summary of what you said: they deserved what they got.. I have an objection at this point.. In that conflict, The Ottoman government did not treat its subjects with equal concern and respect.. They took the Turkish/muslim side.. and the Armenians / christians were driven out and uprooted from their own lands.. if there was any ethnic cleansing at that period of time, it was carried out by the Turkish side against Armenians..  

"They stabbed us from back and we made them pay for their treachery.. it was they who started the war, not us.. blah blah " are nothing but empty words.. and they don´t justify what Turks did to Armenians..  

 

 

 Ustad , your summary is wrong. If you had read the rest of my post you would see ;

1. What lessons can be gained from this event;

 a. We should always be aware of any provacation that is gonna threaten our unity.

 b. Ethnic nationalisizm is a poison that destroys the nations.

 c. We should look at both sides NOT one side..[both sides had suffered from this event

 

You say "if there was any ethnic cleansing at that period of time, it was carried out by the Turkish side against Armenians..  "

Let´s forget all history reports, all books, all rumors...and just listen to Survivors of that event ; watch this link please ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2CGuI7hfCE

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa1RwBmuyus&feature=related



Edited (12/17/2011) by tunci

35.       scalpel
1472 posts
 17 Dec 2011 Sat 03:15 am

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

 Ustad , your summary is wrong. If you had read the rest of my post you would see ;

 

 

 

My summary is right, hocam.

 

Armenians were provoked by Russians 

Armenian gangs armed by Russian were formed.

Armenian gangs with cooperating Russian started etnic cleansing in the east of Turkey

Many innocent Turks were killed, burned alive in the barns,,[including pregnant women, kids,elderly]

This killings made Ottoman goverment started taking actions [sending there troops, deportation of Armenians.

During this deportation to Syria or other places, because of a long journey some Armenians were killed of sickness...etc..  

 

The gist of the above words of yours is clear: they deserved what they got. 

The rest of your post about lessons are just dead, cliche phrases. Wink

And, hocam, it´s a shame that you made the relocation look as if it was a touristic journey to Syria {#emotions_dlg.shame}

 

 

thehandsom and lemon liked this message
36.       lemon
1374 posts
 17 Dec 2011 Sat 05:03 am

Ok,

So far no specific document, no reference number, no name of archive or library.

No international council of historians to aprove the discovery.

No official statement.

 

All mystery, impossible to trace, cheap sensations, a great halo over nothing.

 

37.       stumpy
638 posts
 17 Dec 2011 Sat 08:12 am

the same can be said for the blind faith some have in the bible

38.       si++
3785 posts
 17 Dec 2011 Sat 10:03 am

 

Quoting lemon

Ok,

So far no specific document, no reference number, no name of archive or library.

No international council of historians to aprove the discovery.

No official statement.

 

All mystery, impossible to trace, cheap sensations, a great halo over nothing.

 

Right!

 

I was expectig some from you. You always come here with your pro-Armenian views and say something like:

 

You Türks are <X>, then it must be <Y>.

 

I am curious of what you know about the subject, lemon. Share your knowledge with us. Enlighten us.

39.       si++
3785 posts
 17 Dec 2011 Sat 10:11 am

 

Quoting scalpel

 

 

 

My summary is right, hocam.

 

Armenians were provoked by Russians 

Armenian gangs armed by Russian were formed.

Armenian gangs with cooperating Russian started etnic cleansing in the east of Turkey

Many innocent Turks were killed, burned alive in the barns,,[including pregnant women, kids,elderly]

This killings made Ottoman goverment started taking actions [sending there troops, deportation of Armenians.

During this deportation to Syria or other places, because of a long journey some Armenians were killed of sickness...etc..  

 

The gist of the above words of yours is clear: they deserved what they got. 

The rest of your post about lessons are just dead, cliche phrases. Wink

And, hocam, it´s a shame that you made the relocation look as if it was a touristic journey to Syria {#emotions_dlg.shame}

 

 

 

It´s your conclusion that they deserved what they got.

I would rephrase it as "It was an outcome of what you listed above".

 

And as for your list, to which items do  you have an objection? all of them?

 

Ottoman government was right about the relocation (not deportation, deportation means something else right?). They were killing each other. They had to be separated? So what were you expecting? Leave Armenians where they were and relocate the Muslims?

40.       lemon
1374 posts
 17 Dec 2011 Sat 10:25 am

 

Quoting si++

 

Right!

 

I was expectig some from you. You always come here with your pro-Armenian views and say something like:

 

You Türks are <X>, then it must be <Y>.

 

I am curious of what you know about the subject, lemon. Share your knowledge with us. Enlighten us.

No, -Ice,

First, it was you guys who came with this mystical document, not me. All I did was an investigation. Since I speak Russian and digged and read most websites that google threw in. And I found no proof for the authentication thereof.

Second, you are wrong, I am not pro-armenian. Neither you or armenians are my relatives.

Third, I never start threads like Turks blah blah.

And finally I just join the discussion, contribute something, and I dont have to speak only Turkish pleasing or Turkish flattering statements. Things must be said objectively. If the document is authentic and you can prove it so, bring it on, let me have a look. And then I will have to say: Yes, this document indeed sheds some light on the deeds happent in the past.

I said, and I will repeat neither parts are angels.

 

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