Welcome
Login:   Pass:     Register - Forgot Password - Resend Activation

Turkish Class Forums / Language

Language

Add reply to this discussion
....the problem is that...
(203 Messages in 21 pages - View all)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ...  >>
70.       vona
150 posts
 27 Dec 2012 Thu 08:57 pm

 

Quoting nevbahar


And a question for you, do you think your Turkish is içler acısı? This is a key question. Please answer it.  

belki türkçe şahanedir.. türk eğitimi şahanedir.. he rşey şahanedir.. ben abartıyorumdur

varsın öyle olsun


 

My question was simple and clear. But you did not answer. Let me ask it again but this time in Turkish: 

Türkçen içler acısı mı?

 

71.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 27 Dec 2012 Thu 09:40 pm

 

Quoting vona

 

 

Is this written in a completely different language?

 

Yâ Rab belâ-yı ‘aşk ile kıl âşinâ meni
Bir dem belâ-yı ‘aşkdan etme cüdâ meni
Az eyleme ‘inâyetüni ehl-i derdden
Ya‘ni ki çoh belâlara kıl mübtelâ meni

 

The poem is from Fuzuli (1483 - 1556).

Is there a word in the poem that you do not know the meaning?

Do not we still use all these words: bela, aşk, aşina, dem, inayet, ehl, derd, müptela.

Maybe only for cüda you would look at the dictionary. 

Is there any Turkish member here that could say the poem is written in another language?

So tell me what is the problem?

@Gokuyum, you say you want to understand Fuzuli.. if you do not understand this poem (and his other poems with little bit help of dictionary), just go check your Turkish instead of blaming the others.. 

 

Don´t worry I understand it. And I appreciate its beauty. Understanding Fuzuli doesn´t mean understanding a few couplets of him. Fuzuli´s Turkish was plain and simple. Because of puricification you can´t understand all his works without using a dictionary. And Şeyh Galip was the sultan of whole Ottoman poetry. And its language was a little bit difficult. All I want is to understand them without using a dictionary. And I want people to see their beauty and how humanist they are. Ottoman Turkish was understandable we were the ones who made it unintelligible.

 



Edited (12/27/2012) by gokuyum

72.       vona
150 posts
 27 Dec 2012 Thu 09:44 pm

 

Quoting nevbahar

O zaman vecd ile bin secde eder -varsa- taşım.
Her cerîhamdan, İlâhî, boşanıp kanlı yaşım;
Fışkırır  rûh-ı mücerred gibi yerden na´şım;
O zaman yükselerek arşa değer belki başım!

sence bu dörtlüğü okuyup sözlük kullanmayacak kaç türk var.?tabii sen de tutup sondan bir önceki dörtlüğü seçmişsin diyebilirsin

 

No educated person should need dictionary to understand this quatrain. 

"vecd ile secde" is a saying and every good muslim know it. Actually every secde should be in vecd. Should not be?

It is easy to assume that ceriha is now cerehat. By the way it is a made up word from Arabic cerh. 

Mücerred (isolated) and its opposite is müşahhas (in PHI) (abstract x concrete) An entellectuel should know it eh?

Is there any native here that do not know the meaning of na´aş and arş? 

...

Just because half educated or ignorant people cannot fully understand the quatrain you blame the language reform. 

73.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 27 Dec 2012 Thu 09:48 pm

 

Quoting vona

 

 

No educated person should need dictionary to understand this quatrain. 

"vecd ile secde" is a saying and every good muslim know it. Actually every secde should be in vecd. Should not be?

It is easy to assume that ceriha is now cerehat. By the way it is a made up word from Arabic cerh. 

Mücerred (isolated) and its opposite is müşahhas (in PHI) (abstract x concrete) An entellectuel should know it eh?

Is there any native here that do not know the meaning of na´aş and arş? 

...

Just because half educated or ignorant people cannot fully understand the quatrain you blame the language reform. 

 

There are three levels of Ottoman language used in literature. Simple, avarage and advanced. These are simple ones. I want people to understand at least avarage level.

74.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 27 Dec 2012 Thu 09:49 pm

Reformist purism: The main feature here is to break the bonds with the past. An example of this is the removal of Persian and Arabic words during Turkish language reform under Atatürk in order to break with the Persian- and Arabic- influenced Ottoman Turkish language. Other examples are the purist efforts in languages like Hausa, Swahili[citation needed] and Hindi to break with the colonial past. In addition, language policies may seek to decrease similarities between mutually intelligible languages for ethno-political reasons, as has been the case with Dano-Norwegian, Hindustani (Hindi and Urdu) and Malay/Indonesian.

Revolutionary purism: An abrupt and violent change from the previously mentioned patterns to another. Examples: Turkish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_purism

Language reform and modern Turkish

After the foundation of the Republic of Turkey and the script reform, the Turkish Language Association (TDK) was established in 1932 under the patronage of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, with the aim of conducting research on Turkish. One of the tasks of the newly established association was to initiate a language reform to replace loanwords of Arabic and Persian origin with Turkish equivalents.[16] By banning the usage of imported words in the press, the association succeeded in removing several hundred foreign words from the language. While most of the words introduced to the language by the TDK were newly derived from Turkic roots, it also opted for reviving Old Turkish words which had not been used for centuries.[17]

Owing to this sudden change in the language, older and younger people in Turkey started to differ in their vocabularies. While the generations born before the 1940s tend to use the older terms of Arabic or Persian origin, the younger generations favor new expressions. It is considered particularly ironic that Atatürk himself, in his lengthy speech to the new Parliament in 1927, used a style of Ottoman which sounded so alien to later listeners that it had to be "translated" three times into modern Turkish: first in 1963, again in 1986, and most recently in 1995.[18] There is also a political dimension to the language debate, with conservative groups tending to use more archaic words in the press or everyday language.

The past few decades have seen the continuing work of the TDK to coin new Turkish words to express new concepts and technologies as they enter the language, mostly from English. Many of these new words, particularly information technology terms, have received widespread acceptance. However, the TDK is occasionally criticized for coining words which sound contrived and artificial. Some earlier changes—such as bölem to replace fırka, "political party"—also failed to meet with popular approval (fırka has been replaced by the French loanword parti). Some words restored from Old Turkic have taken on specialized meanings; for example betik (originally meaning "book") is now used to mean "script" in computer science.

Many of the words derived by TDK coexist with their older counterparts. This usually happens when a loanword changes its original meaning. For instance, dert, derived from the Persian dard (درد "pain"), means "problem" or "trouble" in Turkish; whereas the native Turkish word ağrı is used for physical pain. Sometimes the loanword has a slightly different meaning from the native Turkish word, creating a situation similar to the coexistence of Germanic and Romance words in English (see List of Germanic and Latinate equivalents). Among some of the old words that were replaced are terms in geometry, cardinal directions, some months´ names, and many nouns and adjectives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_language#Language_reform_and_modern_Turkish

75.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 27 Dec 2012 Thu 09:51 pm

 

If you understand these without dictionary, there is no problem. This is near to avarage.

 

 

1.  Dil-zinde-i feyz-i Şems-i Tebrîz

   Ney-pâre-i hâme-i şeker-rîz

2.  Bu resme koyup beyân-ı aşkı

Söyler bana dâstân-ı aşkı

3.  Kim vardı Arab´da bir kabîle

   Mustecmi´-i haslet-i cemîle

4.  Ser-levha-i defter-i fütüvvet

   Ser-hayl-i Arab Benî Mahabbet

5.  Amma ne kabîle kıble-i derd

Bilcümle siyâh-baht u rû-zerd

6.  Giydikleri âftâb-ı temmûz

İçtikleri şu-le-i cihân-sûz

7.  Vadîleri rîk ü şîşe-i gam

   Kumlar sağışınca hüzn ü matem

 

 

121.  Vaktâ ki cenâb-ı Aşk bî-bâk

Gam deştine düştü ârzû-nâk

122.  Ol tiyg ile Aşk-ı bark-cevlân

Gam deştini etdi rîk-i meydân

123.  Her gûl-i bekâ ki çıktı râha

Kıldı anı tu´ma tiyg-i âha

124.  Döndürdü zemîni âsmâna

     Ejderleri reng-i kehkeşâna

125.  Etti ser-i dîvü gûlü sergi

Verdi o sipâha nakd-i mergi

 

 



Edited (12/27/2012) by gokuyum
Edited (12/27/2012) by gokuyum

76.       nemanjasrb
507 posts
 27 Dec 2012 Thu 09:57 pm

Wow,I can´t believe how my topic became popular... Can someone tell me what´s happening here? There is 75 answers... :O

77.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 27 Dec 2012 Thu 10:02 pm

This is advanced:

 

Rakkâs-ı dest-efşân-ı cân müjde-i kudûm-i kâsıd-ı kerîmü’lmakâsıdların nezzâregiyân-ı gird-â-gird-i intizâra  iblâğ itdükde 

her biri cüdâgâne cân-efşân-ı şâdmânî olup  

Hoşâ ol nâme-i serbeste kim dildârdan geldi 

Dahî açılmaduk bir goncadur gülzârdan geldi 

diyerek zemzeme-endâz-ı nüh-perde-i seb’-tıbâk olmuşdur. Hakkâ 

ki hâce-i bendergâh-ı şu’ûr ne zer-dûz-ı kâr-hâne-i belâgat olan 

tab’-ı nâdire-kârları tarh itdügi perniyân-ı gül-bend-i cân-pesend 

gibi bir mülemma’-ı nesîc-i berâ’at görmişdür ve ne nağme-i zîr-

âheng-i nây-ı yerâ’aları gibi bir zemzeme-i sâmi’-firîb-i sâmi’anevâz işitmişdür.Sayrafî-i ‘ayârdân-ı insâf ol mevzû’-ı tabakçe-i 

nükte-senci kılınan ferâyid-i ibârât-ı müste’ârâtı  keşîde-i sımt-ı 

iz’ân ve vişâhu’s-sadr-i gâniye-i hacle-i cân itdükde andelîb-i hôş-

nevâ-yı nâtıka terâne-perdâz-ı bezm-i tahsîn olup gül-bang-i senâ 

ile tanîn-endâz-ı kubbe-i kâinât olmuşdur.Kâsıd-ı bî-ârâm tekâzâ-

yı bî-hengâm itmegin bu makûle elfâz-ı rekîk-i nâ-der-berâber 

irsâli ile iktifâ olundı

78.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 27 Dec 2012 Thu 10:16 pm

 

Quoting nemanjasrb

Wow,I can´t believe how my topic became popular... Can someone tell me what´s happening here? There is 75 answers... :O

 

I guessed something will go out of control! This is just beginning! We are discussing similar topics for about a human life. So your topic will never die and there may be a couple of hundred answers soon!

nemanjasrb liked this message
79.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 27 Dec 2012 Thu 10:24 pm

 

Quoting ikicihan

 

 

I guessed something will go out of control! This is just beginning! We are discussing similar topics for about a human life. So your topic will never die and there may be a couple of hundred answers soon!

"I will say the last word." This our motto and motivation

 

nemanjasrb liked this message
80.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 27 Dec 2012 Thu 10:50 pm

 

Quoting vona

 

 

Is this written in a completely different language?

 

Yâ Rab belâ-yı ‘aşk ile kıl âşinâ meni
Bir dem belâ-yı ‘aşkdan etme cüdâ meni
Az eyleme ‘inâyetüni ehl-i derdden
Ya‘ni ki çoh belâlara kıl mübtelâ meni

 

The poem is from Fuzuli (1483 - 1556).

 

Not really..

But below is the original source for the poem.

That is is different language!!

Yours is how it would have been written with the latin alphabet (yet I still have an issue with the meanings. It contains many words you dont come a cross with any books or any news papers in our daily lives)

يا رب بلای عشق ايله قيل آشنا بني
بر دم بلای عشقدن قیلما جدا بني

آز ایلمه عنایتيکي اهل درددن
یاني که چوق بلالره قیل مبتلا بني


 

 

(203 Messages in 21 pages - View all)
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ...  >>
Add reply to this discussion




Turkish Dictionary
Turkish Chat
Open mini chat
New in Forums
Crossword Vocabulary Puzzles for Turkish L...
qdemir: You can view and solve several of the puzzles online at ...
Giriyor vs Geliyor.
lrnlang: Thank you for the ...
Local Ladies Ready to Play in Your City
nifrtity: ... - Discover Women Seeking No-Strings Attached Encounters in Your Ci...
Geçmekte vs. geçiyor?
Hoppi: ... and ... has almost the same meaning. They are both mean "i...
Intermediate (B1) to upper-intermediate (B...
qdemir: View at ...
Why yer gördüm but yeri geziyorum
HaydiDeer: Thank you very much, makes perfect sense!
Random Pictures of Turkey
Most liked