Islam brought radical changes regarding women and society, despite the deeply entrenched patriarchy of seventh-century Arabia. The Qur’an provides women with explicit rights to inheritance, independent property, divorce and the right to testify in a court of law. It prohibits wanton violence towards women and girls and is against duress in marriage and community affairs. Women and men equally are required to fulfill all religious duties, and are equally eligible for punishment for misdemeanors. Finally, women are offered the ultimate boon: paradise and proximity to Allah: ‘Whoever does an atom’s weight of good, whether male or female, and is a believer, all such shall enter into Paradise’ (Q 40:4.

In the period immediately following the death of the Prophet, women were active participants at all levels of community affairs — religious, political, social, educational, intellectual. They played key roles in preserving traditions, disseminating knowledge and challenging authority when it went against their understanding of the Qur’an or the prophetic legacy.

Look first you have to know that. I dont have to prove something. I just believe islam and i dont care the others. I wont debate you on those things. Cos its not my aim. I said i dont care if you believe or not.

I wrote something cos you were saying unrespectful things. You cant say or you musnt say or you should not say. Choose one of them. But just be respectful.

You dont need to attack. I wont give up islam or convert to other religion and you wont revert to islam. So its just nonsense debate. You should see it. Give up your rancour.

Okay? I want just RESPECT. Just this. No more.

I believe it to be true that İslam brought the women of THAT TIME several rights that they did not have before. But we must place everything in the perspective of time and though those changes at that time might have been a great improvement, that doesnt subsequently mean that women and men have equal rights in İslamic countries these days. That opens a second dilemma: the difference between the İslam as written in the Qur'an, as projected in the prophets Sunnah and as the İslamic Law Şaira, opposed to how governments, politics treat it.

Yes, İslam may have brought improvement of the status of women at the time, but that doesnt deny that at a trial where witnesses are needed, a woman only counts as half a şahit, meaning that when 4 witnesses are required, this either means 4 men or 8 women.
It doesnt deny that according to İslamic Marital Law, a woman is not alowed to 'marry down', she can only marry a man of the same or higher status than her, but she is not allowed to marry a man with a lower status. This implies the men has to be equal or HİGHER, but in no respect LOWER status than the woman.

I am not saying that every muslim believes that men are twice as much worth as women, eventhough it is written in Quran like that. When time changes, concepts of religion change too, and it may come to us as if some surahs will not be fitting in our time anymore.

On the other hand, both westeners and easteners have wrong ideas, or interpretations from several verses. Westeners should that Muslims are barbaric and unfaithful as they are allowed to marry up to 4 women, muslim men read these verses and take 4 women. However, if one reads further than burnun ucundan, the Quran states that marriage with more than one woman is ONLY allowed, when you can give EQUAL care to these women, which, Allah also says, is İMPOSSİBLE, how much in your breast you may wish it. In other words, Quran says a man is not allowed to marry more than one woman.


However, what FF and many others are trying to defend, is the position of women in many İslamic countries. They are oppressed, abused and all under the idea of İSLAM. I do not wish people to convert to any other religion, but I do wish people who are rightly guided Muslims, to stand up and say that that is not their islam, but merely an effect of culture, which has to and should be changed.

You are getting close Deli_kizin.

What you have to understand is that Arab women before islam were treated like mere slaves. Owners or husbands had the right to flogg them at will. They had no inheritence rights whatsoever, and who would even allow women as witnesses into a court yard..

Had Muhammed made very radical changes, against all traditions, no one would have followed his preachings.

What did he do instead? He ruled "yes, you guys can beat your wives - but only with a meswak (a very small stick, about 10-15 cm in length), you can not hit their faces, and leaving stick marks on her body is forbidden". He treated all his wifes like human beings and never beat any one of them himself.

If some of the following idiots could not see the way he pointed to...can anyone blame Muhammad or Islam?