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4360.       catwoman
8933 posts
 20 Jan 2010 Wed 03:28 am

 

Quoting Yersu

 

You are right catwoman; there has been so many things going on between Turks & Kurds that it isn´t possible for us to intervene in their lifestyle anymore. We are alienated and that was what I was trying to say from the start. 

 

An example: I have relatives who work as teacher and nurse there, and did you know that infantile paralysis is still a serious problem among the Kurds? Because many rural Kurds reject vaccines as there are rumours that Turks are trying to sterilize them. Go figure, the trust between the peoples are THAT terrible. You know, like that story of the old man and the snake. And I don´t see it getting better soon, the only Kurds that have no issues are the so called Turkified Kurds. Like American of Irish descent etc.

 

Anyway; This is not an issue of who is right or wrong anymore. Turks or Turkish government can no longer intervene such issues, they will defend it more and more. My point right from the start, let them live their culture freely. Let them run amuck killing whoever they want. Sooner or later they will see that this is ridiculous and grow out of it, by themselves.

 

 

You´re right, a lot of horrible things have happened to Kurds from teh hands of Turks, but you will not see any Turk acknowledge that.. or at least not many. The process of improving will have to be long and is going to be harder because of what happened in the past, but you cannot get anywhere if you first do not acknowledge your mistakes and look for a way to make up for them. You still see Turks desiring a military solution for the conflict, they just refuse to see the root of the problem (but they notice racism anywhere when it´s them that´s in trouble - not to say taht it´s bad, but it´s certainly hypocritical). The situation is the same as it was in Ireland, until it dawned on Britain to address the roots of the grievances, and suddenly terrorism stopped!

4361.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 20 Jan 2010 Wed 03:50 am

Coded references to New Testament Bible passages about Jesus Christ are inscribed on high-powered rifle sights provided to the U.S. military by a Michigan company, an ABC News investigation has found.

The sights are used by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and in the training of Iraqi and Afghan soldiers. The maker of the sights, Trijicon, has a $660 million multi-year contract to provide up to 800,000 sights to the Marine Corps, and additional contracts to provide sights to the U.S. Army.

U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious "Crusade" in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents.

 

(...)

 

"This is probably the best example of violation of the separation of church and state in this country," said Weinstein. "It´s literally pushing fundamentalist Christianity at the point of a gun against the people that we´re fighting. We´re emboldening an enemy."

 

SOURCE

 

____________________________________

 

That´s quite outrageous that a gun manufacturer produces something against the military rules and nobody checks it prior to it being handed to soldiers.

4362.       catwoman
8933 posts
 20 Jan 2010 Wed 04:32 am

 

Quoting armegon

 

 Saying the truth is not racism i think.

 

But what you are saying is the same as saying that all muslims are terrotists is the truth, not racism. How come you see this behavior in others, but not in yourself? {#emotions_dlg.unsure}

4363.       Yersu
241 posts
 20 Jan 2010 Wed 05:16 am

 

Quoting catwoman

 

 

You´re right, a lot of horrible things have happened to Kurds from teh hands of Turks

Uhm, that´s kinda putting words into my mouth. I do not deny what Turks did, but displaying Kurds as angels, which seems to be the defautl behaviour by many, isn´t realistic at all. I rather believe in the idiom "Mazlumlar zulmetmekte geç kalanlardır" (which I remember there was a similar idiom in English, bur I can´t remember, meaning the oppressed are the ones that were late to oppress). We saw it many times throughout the history, Zimbabwe, Haiti,  Israel, and we are starting to see it in Turkey.

 

No need to sugarcoat anything, or debate over who is/was wrong or right at this point. Kurds & Turks do not want to live together and the sooner this problem is dealt with the better.

4364.       armegon
1872 posts
 20 Jan 2010 Wed 10:00 am

 

Quoting catwoman

 

 

But what you are saying is the same as saying that all muslims are terrotists is the truth, not racism. How come you see this behavior in others, but not in yourself? {#emotions_dlg.unsure}

 

 , be sure from the beginning i tell the same things that Yersu mentioned, what about you? Do you say all muslims are terrorists is the truth all the time? And you are talking about sincerety. Btw where did Yersu call all Kurds are primitive and backward? He just told its their culture...

4365.       lemon
1374 posts
 20 Jan 2010 Wed 12:07 pm

snow!

 

blinkin hell!!!

 

i wish i could sleep over this horrible winter.

 

wheres that flinkin global warming, i ask you?

4366.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 20 Jan 2010 Wed 12:29 pm

 

Quoting Yersu

 

[...] We saw it many times throughout the history, Zimbabwe, Haiti,  Israel, and we are starting to see it in Turkey.

 

No need to sugarcoat anything, or debate over who is/was wrong or right at this point. Kurds & Turks do not want to live together and the sooner this problem is dealt with the better.

 

 

When you said something about honour killings in Europe, and I was surprised, since I haven´t heard much about it in Holland. But ofcourse, you meant the U.K., France and Germany.

I think Kurdish people in general beware anything offered tot hem by the Turkish government, even medical care. But can you blame them? You can´t compare the Kurds to people in Israel... people in Israel have their own country, and also in general a high standard of living. Nobody can deny that the economy of the east of Turkey is much less developped then other parts of Turkey. Things like a good infrastructure and good education is often missing, and as far as I know, this is a job of the government to do. The east of Turkey happens to be highly populated by Kurdish people. There is a direct link between education and things like honour killings. There is also a direct link between infrastructural development and education... The government has a job to do, and yes it is a hard job, and yes there will be resistence. But when did the Turkish government didn´t do something because a bit of resistence before?

 

I´m not blaming this girl commiting suicide (or her family killing her, we´ll never know) on the Turkish government directly. But there needs to be something done about structural under-developped areas in Turkey, and I believe (and mostly hope)  this will improve the lives of people in more ways then just with money.

 

By the way... no critisism but a real question... What do you think is the solution, if Kurds and Turks really cannot live together? A Kurdish seperate state, or perhaps a Kurdish state under the umbrella of Turkey? What´s your view?

4367.       Yersu
241 posts
 20 Jan 2010 Wed 02:13 pm

 

Quoting barba_mama

 

 

 

When you said something about honour killings in Europe, and I was surprised, since I haven´t heard much about it in Holland. But ofcourse, you meant the U.K., France and Germany.

I think Kurdish people in general beware anything offered tot hem by the Turkish government, even medical care. But can you blame them? You can´t compare the Kurds to people in Israel... people in Israel have their own country, and also in general a high standard of living. Nobody can deny that the economy of the east of Turkey is much less developped then other parts of Turkey. Things like a good infrastructure and good education is often missing, and as far as I know, this is a job of the government to do. The east of Turkey happens to be highly populated by Kurdish people. There is a direct link between education and things like honour killings. There is also a direct link between infrastructural development and education... The government has a job to do, and yes it is a hard job, and yes there will be resistence. But when did the Turkish government didn´t do something because a bit of resistence before?

 

I´m not blaming this girl commiting suicide (or her family killing her, we´ll never know) on the Turkish government directly. But there needs to be something done about structural under-developped areas in Turkey, and I believe (and mostly hope)  this will improve the lives of people in more ways then just with money.

 

By the way... no critisism but a real question... What do you think is the solution, if Kurds and Turks really cannot live together? A Kurdish seperate state, or perhaps a Kurdish state under the umbrella of Turkey? What´s your view?

Barba_mama;

Thanks for you reply however you are only pointing out the obvious:

-Hey we have some some issues in a region of our country. Crime, killings, poverty and whatnot.

-Hmm maybe you should improve the education and economy...

-Wow, I don´t know why I never thought about that before!

 

I don´t want to offend you but seriously..The issue is much more complicated. And it´s not like regional differences are exclusive to Turkey, look at Italy for example which resides at the heart of Europe.There is even a separatist Northern group who wants to cut south off as far as I know.

 

 

Anyway; as for your question, I don´t think there is a solution. Turkey as we know it won´t exist in the future. I am a Turkish separatist btw. and people like me are increasing day by day. A peaceful separation and a population exchange is the only thing that can prevent the impending bloodshed.

 

4368.       cedars
235 posts
 20 Jan 2010 Wed 03:10 pm

Turkish FM Davutoglu unveils new manifesto for Turkish diplomacy

“....

 All maps are subjective. When you take a look at it from Japan, Japan seems to be at the center and when you take a look at it from the United Kingdom, it seems in the center. However, whatever map you take a look at, Turkey is always at the center.

.....

Davutoğlu said: “We must have a message for the world. We are in the position of doing justice to this region. There is no other country in the world that has the same location as us. We must be active in these five, six regions simultaneously … Turkey’s diplomacy can only be compared with that of five or six countries in the world.”

 

http://www.today.az/news/turkey/58893.html

4369.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 20 Jan 2010 Wed 05:03 pm

 

Quoting Yersu

 

Barba_mama;

Thanks for you reply however you are only pointing out the obvious:

-Hey we have some some issues in a region of our country. Crime, killings, poverty and whatnot.

-Hmm maybe you should improve the education and economy...

-Wow, I don´t know why I never thought about that before!

 

I don´t want to offend you but seriously..The issue is much more complicated. And it´s not like regional differences are exclusive to Turkey, look at Italy for example which resides at the heart of Europe.There is even a separatist Northern group who wants to cut south off as far as I know.

 

 

Anyway; as for your question, I don´t think there is a solution. Turkey as we know it won´t exist in the future. I am a Turkish separatist btw. and people like me are increasing day by day. A peaceful separation and a population exchange is the only thing that can prevent the impending bloodshed.

 

 

Ofcourse it´s more complicated, but we can´t state the history of the issue and all the factors on a website like this. A whole book won´t cover the different aspects, so I just took out two points that are easier to solve. You can´t change anything about history, the people who´ve died on both sides, broken promises, things like that. I think a lot of Turkish people have an opinion about the Kurdish "situation" without taking the trouble to actually study the history of the issue. And it is SO hard to find a objective source on this topic. It seems that always parts of history seem to be missing, and a very black/white view comes across. My idealism is not because of a lack of knowledge, my idealism is just because I AM an idealist

 

Who knows, maybe I will go to the east some day and teach in some small village My Turkish sucks, but my Kurdish is even worse. I can count to ten, say hi, how are you...good, bad... and no... I can´t even say yes! Me in a Kurdish populated village...won´t that be weird... Anyway, a nice documentary is "On the way to school" by Orhan Esikoy and Özgür Dogan. It´s a must see, how a young Turkish teacher from Denizli goes to a small village in the east to teach.

 

A population exchange... like the Greek-Turkish thing?

4370.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 20 Jan 2010 Wed 05:08 pm

 

Quoting lemon

snow!

 

blinkin hell!!!

 

i wish i could sleep over this horrible winter.

 

wheres that flinkin global warming, i ask you?

 

 I believe I invited you to Texas.  It was 26 celcius here yesterday!  {#emotions_dlg.yes}

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