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Firstly i stated that i reject to trust a liar and i tried to prove that shes a clear-cut liar. In fact i thought that effort is futile, because its clear as day. Anyway thats your choice to believe into a liar. By the way i previously talked about that guy who murdered Theo van Gogh here. You first need to know psychological situation of that guy for sure hes ignorant but i cannot put aside that van Gogh attacked Morrocans in Holland and kept offending them.
Actually you need to know how people living in Islamic societies. These societies are mostly poor, every young brains searching for identity and nobody clearly knows their own religion, basically they dont read Quran, instead they hire their minds to their religious leaders and sheikhs or cult leaders and those use these young people to gain power and to secure their position. In fact even many of them dont know how to read. So they can do anything with the order of their leader. Because the only thing they have are those religious leaders. They pray for them instead of God which is completely shirk. Im the one here who badly criticized so-called leaders and thats why im always against religous states which exploits people’s belief.
In addition these people’s first aim is to look after their family, its their most important duty not like west countries. And in order to realize this they can make anything, so firstly they struggle with their family beforehand struggling with their middle-aged traditions or beforehand educating themselves thats because i cannot completely condemn them. People are ignorant, because mostly they have no possibility to educate themselves. So its easy from here to condemn them. Real muslim should be against any kind of violence applied to innocents. In Islam killing is strictly forbidden till believers are killed thus its self defence.
Anyway i think you understand who real muslim is. Because of this i said they are not muslims and im frustrurated with the hi-jacked name Islam, which is invention of west. Today all countries see the ones as terrorists who kills innocents. I criticize the west because its the western imperialists whos sucking their blood and exploit their country and making people hate eachother. I have to remind you that many muslims protested the acts of Al-Qaida in meetings in various parts of the world.
As for the threads here, there had been many threads condemning the violence of Islamic states. And i also contibuted them and as far as i remember many other members who call themselves muslim criticized too. So its better for you to check the old threads here. If the intention is constructive, i have no problem with them but when them turns into Islam blackening campaign then of course i have my right to criticize them.
Finally why you continously say that you are not trying to pick a fight with me? Im not boogeyman  . And im not defensive when Islam is discussed and criticized due to respect then for sure i contribute. By the way you havent replied any of my assertions, you just started a new discussion  ...
That´s exactly right, I only read her book and saw the movie she made with the Dutch director who was killed by a Mulism (moderate?) for making it. So I don´t know whether all the arguments you have against her are true or not. I´m basing my post on what I´ve read, and you´re entitled to your own opinion based on what you know. You may be right or you may be wrong, frankly, she´s not somebody I´m going to go to war over with you or anybody else.
Just because you choose to ignore the fact that there are people (which some call radical) that are using Islam to justify violent acts, it doesn´t mean that it´s not an issue. You may call them out of Islam, but that´s not what project themselves as.
How do I know real Muslims do not condemn violent acts? Well, I guess that depends on what you would define as a "real Muslim" to begin with. I would imagine normal, regular people would condemnt violent acts. But if they do, they surely do it quietly, at least quietly enough that the biased media don´t show it (funny though, I watch media from abroad, don´t even watch American tv all that much, but interestingly enough, it´s quiet there too about Muslims protesting violance by other Muslims against both Muslims and "infidels"). Also, there´s been a survey done, and I think it´s in one of Sam Harris´s book about what percentage of people approve suicide bombings "to defend Islam" and the numbers are terrifying. I know surveys are not always accurate, but still, if you even take the margin of error into consideration it´s still awful.
You don´t have to go far to see it too. You complain about the bias of the "western" members. During the massacre in Gaza how many "infidels" expressed their outrage? There´s been multiple threads/posts about it. Where are the threadss with the outrage against violent Muslims expressed by Muslims? All you can say is "It´s not Islam" and how dare you criticize and all west is racist, prejudiced, biased, etc.
Again, I´m not trying to pick a fight with you. It seems that you get real defensive when Islam is discussed. But as you can voice your perception of what´s going on in the world, so can I, and to me, Islam, as a religion, does not have a very friendly face right now. And no, I DON´T think every Muslim is a terrorist killer, if that´s going to be your next argument.
Edited (2/13/2009) by armegon
Edited (2/13/2009) by armegon
Edited (2/13/2009) by armegon
[grammar just realized some of them :)]
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