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Forum Messages Posted by thehandsom

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Thread: Kurd-free Turkey?

1291.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 29 Jul 2010 Thu 03:30 pm

 

Quoting lemon

 

 

You be careful. This is what exactly some europeans think about muslims who are in europe. So before you say A always have an option B.

To me you sound like an elitist (illuminati). They will measure you by your measures. We had some fellows in the past in europe who decided that non-aryan nations were useless therefore were to be killed.

 

There is a definition of those type of Europeans here.

Most of the time they are called racists!!!!

 



Thread: Kurd-free Turkey?

1292.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 29 Jul 2010 Thu 03:24 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

What do you mean by race-bans? Do you imply we are a bunch of racists here? I am pretty sure this is your meaning. So, please remove that phrase or I will delete it myself.

 

really?



Thread: Kurd-free Turkey?

1293.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 29 Jul 2010 Thu 02:43 pm

 

Quoting peacetrain

 

H,

Do you really believe you are making some kind of personal sacrifice for the good of your homeland?  Your sentiment may be admirable, but I´m seriously worried that some will see you as a budding megalomaniac.

Vineyards muses that people come here to discuss and hopefully find some convergence of opinions . . . well maybe they do, but every so often the "calm" is shattered by the storm that is YOU!  I´m not talking about your political bent or ideals, I´m talking about your tactics.  Your tactics are counterproductive, if you did but know it.  That´s a shame too because non Turks like me could learn a great deal from you and your political counterparts.  YES, they must shoulder some of the responsibility for the way the threads descend into mayhem, but, more often than not YOU start these fights. You whip yourself and others into a frenzy. Result? Divergence

You claimed recently that people should respect the opinions of others.  It seems to me you want people to respect your opinions but where is the respect when you accuse people of ignorance, of not reading?  I think you enjoy the debates and that´s why you always come back for more.  It is precisely because your "adversaries" here are not ignorant and do read, that you enjoy the meaty debates.  If they were not interested in Turkish politics, if they did not read, if they were ignorant, you would not keep coming back for more.  You relish those debates . . . and that´s fine, so long as you don´t flame. They may not agree with your "proofs" and they may put forward "proofs" of their own and vice versa . . . that doesn´t give you the right to insult their intelligence the way you do.  Of course you are insulted too . . . WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? (actually I think you DO expect it . . . you WANT it).

I know exactly what your response will be too, because your activity cycle here is very predictable.

I´ve tried to think of an oxymoron to describe you . . . in the end I´ve decided that you are a living, breathing oxymoron in your own right.

You say you have done all you can. Are you sure about that?  If you are so passionate/anguished/desperate/worried/angry/fired up about Turkey´s future, why not take steps to fulfill your destiny (now you´ve got me doing it {#emotions_dlg.rant}) ?  Take up the cudgel. Perhaps your place is in Turkey, on the political stage.  Perhaps you are a big fish in this relatively small cyber pool that is TLC. Perhaps your talents are wasted here. Perhaps you are Turkey´s missing link. I´m serious, is there really anything to stop you? 

Sacrifice H, sacrifice . . .

 

 

 

 

I dont think it is worth to reply..

I dont think "calm" is that important for me when certain people look that the incidents through their "....-bans" glasses.

I dont think convergence of opinions will be always be a good thing with those people wearing those glasses..

I will post the subjects I believe is important. And yes..I have that sentiment and I think it is nothing to do with being a megalomaniac.. 

Dont even go into level of swearing i get here..I only respond to very little amount..

So dont play that game.. Some times, there are at least 4/5 people swear at me here.. At the same time.. for what? just because I post something remind what the racism is..

Why do you want to stop me anyway?? why? and how can you explain ´stopping somebody expressing their opinions´ to your students for example?

Anyway..

I dont really CARE what you think and ´ahh calm is shuttered. and it is all you.´ . I dont really value that calm either..

I would post the subject regarding racism/KKK and blacks  if I was an American, I would be against nazis if i was in 1945 and a German.   

As I said.. I will post whatever I believe is important..

 



Edited (7/29/2010) by thehandsom



Thread: Dangerous games

1294.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 29 Jul 2010 Thu 12:04 pm

More articles about these incidents:

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/columnists-217480-social-harmony-at-risk.html

 

The Hürriyet daily’s Sedat Ergin says the unrest that broke out in İnegöl and Dörtyol are an indication of the fact that social harmony is on thin ice in Turkey. “Both incidents reveal that simmering ethnic tension between different segments of the population has the potential to turn into civil unrest upon the slightest trigger, especially following an increase in PKK attacks. As seen in the riots in İnegöl and Dörtyol, a small provocation is sufficient to cause major social conflict,” ...

The Sabah daily’s Emre Aköz, a sociologist, says the riots in İnegöl must be taken very seriously ... it is likely that the riot was provoked by shadowy forces. “The incident had nothing to do with alcohol or ignorance. The İnegöl case was an operation, a planned scheme. If the plan had not worked in İnegöl, it would have been put into action somewhere else,” says Aköz.

The Vatan daily’s Ruşen Çakır says....the same problem lies beneath all of them: Turkey’s long-standing Kurdish problem. ...

=============

Hurriyet

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.p..2010-07-28

Even somebody´s teacher put his opinions:

Sedat Laçiner,..said the attacks and clashes that have occurred in the country’s eastern and southeastern regions have been fueled by the PKK, but called those in the west, including İnegöl, “the result of provocative actions triggered by some who call themselves nationalists and pretend to be against the PKK.”

 



Thread: Kurd-free Turkey?

1295.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 29 Jul 2010 Thu 11:31 am

 

Quoting lemon

I have to agree with Vineyards here. Enough is enough. I think everyone is tired with these endless discussions over the same issues. With such activities you will make even your friends hate your actions that are not necessarily wrong. Take a break, man!

 

I am simply "rejecting" what you are saying..

When I think my country is at the border of descending into a civil war, I dont wish to write about pandas...

If I can prevent one person to be aware of what is coming or might come and prevent that person taking a knife and attacking Kurds or a Kurds attacking a Turk I will consider myself successful. Even if it does not happen, I will think ´I did everything I could´. 

That purpose is more important to me keeping friends or if the ´friends´ will  hate me for that, that is entirely their business...

That is as simple as that!!

As one of my friends mentioned it some where else  as " we could have prevented, can we do it now?" . That friend was referring to the incident, my country´s ´racist/fascist party´ organised 32 years ago..

Maras incident..   In 1978 the same party which is trying to create civil war now, MHP, -the party my country men  could NOT condemn their actions HERE as they are our own racists- organised, attacked and killed many alevi  people because they were simply alevis.. They killed  hundreds!!! Many were hacked to death!! Children/women/men!!  Now they are trying to do the same!!! 

So, coming back to your post: I am sorry but I am rejecting it..



Thread: Kurd-free Turkey?

1296.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 28 Jul 2010 Wed 09:41 pm

Well..

I appreciate your inputs..

And I am aware that what is important to me to post here at a particular time my not be very entertaining yet important for others..

But we have to respect each other´s opinion on this matter.

 



Thread: Kurd-free Turkey?

1297.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 28 Jul 2010 Wed 12:31 pm

The next big thing: Turkish separatism

For years and years, the Turkish state and media complained about the ´separatism´ of Kurdish nationalists. But now it seems that even some Turks themselves are joining the club.

.. As a prominent name among ´white´ (Westernized and upper-class) Turks, Mr. Özkök posed a critical question: ´Do we have to live together?´...

A dangerous idea:

...    As one can see clearly on the internet, there is a growing ethno-nationalism within the Turkish majority. Being fed up with not just the quarter-century-long terrorism and guerilla warfare of the PKK, but also the ever-expanding political demands of the Kurds, some Turks started to dream of a ´Kurden-rein´ (Kurd-free) Turkey.

 

For my part, I am strongly against that dream ..... I know that such a partition among ethnic lines would be disastrous.

 

There are two main reasons. First, in Turkey there is no clear internal border that would define a would-be independent Kurdistan (Unlike Kosovo, which was a well-defined autonomous region in Serbia). So, in the case of a partition, Kurds will inevitably want as much land as they can get, whereas Turks would be willing to leave as little as possible. Hence there will be conflict.

 

The even greater problem is that most Kurds in Turkey now live outside of a would-be independent Kurdistan. Millions of them have migrated to Western cities, making Istanbul the largest Kurdish city on earth. An ethnic separation in such a mixed population will lead to mass exoduses, and, most probably, ethnic clashes.

 

In other words, if an independent Kurdistan is ever carved out of Turkey, it won’t be like the 1991 secession of Slovenia from Yugoslavia, which happened with just a few dozen casualties. It will be, God forbid, something like the 1947 partition of India and Pakistan, during which almost a million people died. The ethnic tension we have seen this week in two separate towns should be sobering enough.

 

That’s why, I think, no sane person should neither ask for the partition of Turkey, nor pave the way to it. But who said nationalism, especially ethno-nationalism, goes hand in hand with sanity?

 

... Some Kurds passionately believe that their salvation will come only through an independent nation-state. (Whereas it will probably bring them only poverty and slavery under the dictatorial rule of what is today the PKK. Nation-states, as we Turks have also seen, are ruthless leviathans unless tamed with liberal democracy.)

 

Yet still, most Kurds in Turkey seem to be content with full cultural freedom, some form of regional autonomy, and a settlement with the PKK. But then comes the problem on the other side: Most Turks are not willing to accept any of these.

 

The hatred to the PKK is understandable, and is actually the smaller problem. The bigger one is that most Turks have been brainwashed to believe that; a) there is either no such things as Kurds, b) if there is any, then they have to assimilate into the ´Turkish nation.´

 

A Kurd-free Turkey?

 

For those who realize that this assimilation project has failed indefinitely, there are two options. The first one is pluralism, which is to accept ´a nation of Turkey,´ with various identities. The second one is Turkish ethno-nationalism, which is to seek a Kurd-free country.

 

This second trend fuels Turkish separatism, which is likely to grow. Staunch Kemalists will be its foremost champions, for their highest value is the ´preservation of Atatürk’s Republic,´ which has no place for any non-Turkish identity.

 

The pluralist trend, for which my heart goes, has two assets. The first are the secular liberals, who are inspired by EU norms and even post-modern thoughts. They are fine, but they are also quite marginal. (The last time they found a political party, they received less than one percent of the votes.)

 

The other group that is sympathetic to pluralism is the Muslim conservatives who make up almost half of the country. They are not bleeding heart liberals, but they have a good frame of reference in the Ottoman Empire, in which the Kurds had all the freedoms they now yearn for.

 

.... I just know that the tree of democracy only grows on a soil nourished by history and tradition.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=the-next-big-thing-turkish-separatism-2010-07-27 

==================

I think it is a very critical times in Turkey.. It is either live together or separate..



Thread: HOLOCAUST

1298.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 27 Jul 2010 Tue 10:12 pm

 

Quoting alameda

 

 

If one were to look at personal insults...look at your own message. This is so damn tedious. It appears you have a problem with Turkish men. In the years I´ve been here I´ve seen you go after many, particularly patriotic Turkish men. What is wrong with being patriotic? If you want to have a country, if you are a citizen of a country, you must be patriotic, or loose it.

Hmmmmm....On the other hand....you do seem to have a lot of sympathy towards Armenians and PKK issues.

 

 

I am sure it was an answer to someone´s insult attempts. If I were to highlight the attempted insults, there would be many, more than your highlights!! I am sure you know that..

I dont have any problem with patriotism at all.. I am just against self-professed patriots. Especially I am against the racism!!  If you ask  KKK members in your country they will call themselves patriotic citizens too!!  I would have lots of sympathy towards blacks, indians and all refugees, If I was an American and I would always question  people´s patriotism if those people dont try to put any distance between themselves and actions of KKK.. 

As one of my Turkish friends put it rightly in his fb accunt: The Kurds are our indians in Turkey.

So the answer to your post is:

-10000 lol

 

 

 



Thread: Dangerous games

1299.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 27 Jul 2010 Tue 06:43 pm

 

Quoting si++

 

 

Never mind. Just ignore him.

 

+1000..

Otherwise, a total disaster!!



Thread: Dangerous games

1300.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 27 Jul 2010 Tue 06:11 pm

Still Turkish? lol

Come on.. Show your ´qualities´ to everyone!! Dont be shy!! lol



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