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Forum Messages Posted by vineyards

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Thread: Norway does it again

571.       vineyards
1954 posts
 12 Jan 2010 Tue 06:40 pm

 

Quoting Daydreamer

It is terrible the mother died, however, I´m far from accusing Norway of racism. I understand that in a stressful situation it´s easy to blame everything on racism, but let´s be fair and wonder if that´s really the case.

 

.... 

 

It is saddening that incidents like that happen. But they don´t happen to foreigners only, how often do we hear about ambulance not being sent somewhere because the dispatcher made a wrong assumption or misjudged the situation?

 

 

And you still think we must stick to existing procedures rather than improving them or blaming them when they give way to disasters like this...

 

Correct me if I am wrong but I don´t remember talking about racism explicitly. Racism must be much more comprehensive than this. It must involve things like deliberate denial of service etc. In this case, we are talking about stereotypes and their consequences. I also made a reference to the anti-Islamic sentiment in Europe. There is a more general picture of Europe in my mind and racistic attitudes find a place in it but this would be another discussion. It can hardly be seen in political statements, laws and regulations. Instead, what I am talking about is merely an attitude and it is a part of the European lore. Similar attitudes exist in many other countries including our own. Whereas ours is -though rarer- mostly blatantly expressed, brutally exercised acts of crime, the European attitude is more undercover and tactful which also makes it more effective.



Thread: Norway does it again

572.       vineyards
1954 posts
 12 Jan 2010 Tue 02:31 pm

 

Quoting alameda

Why anyone would ask any question about employment is beyond me.  Had the EMS gotten there in time, perhaps they could have helped the woman. I know a few people who were "dead" and revived by EMS.  Had they not gotten there in a timely manner, those people would never have been revived.   

 

 

 

 

Not just that they ask many other irrelevant questions like what your nationality is etc.

 

What I am objecting is the fact that everyone is assuming something about this family:

 

emergency service assumed there was no real emergency

the police assumed there is some sort of crime

the posters on this forum assume the family don´t know how to make a call and stuff like that.

 

We are driven by all these silly stereotypes. Many people on the Internet assume tons of laughable things about you when you begin to speak to them. They have a picture of a Turk = muslim = potential trouble in their minds. This last incident is a tragic example showing the gravity of the problem with stereotypes.

 

Empathy and sympathy are two concepts that can cure the present problem.  This is true for all countries not just Europe or the US. A prefered way to deal with problems involving other cultures must be sympathizing with their needs and trying to understand their motives. We do this even to animals. We try to establish empathy with a lion and base our relationship on the nature of this animal. When it comes to people, we resort to our stereotypes which effectively maims any interaction with individuals whose cultures and mindsets are different from ours.

 

 



Thread: Norway does it again

573.       vineyards
1954 posts
 10 Jan 2010 Sun 06:25 pm

We can approach the matter in two different ways:

 

You must be qualified to make a call to the emergency service. You may be considered suspicious if you have an accent or speak in an excited manner.

 

or

 

Emergency Service must be qualified and trained to handle different situations professionally without expecting the inquirer to be qualified. (the inquirer can be a child, a tourist, a disabled person etc.)

 

 

If you think the first approach is true then you think it is perfectly normal to let foreigners who are not aware of the procedures to go through this and face death in the end. This approach entails that inquirer must be trained about how to ask for help from emergency first aid professionals. This approach also disregards the fact there may be panic and chaos in emergency situations and that different cultures react and handle such situations differently.

Was this approach right, they would have to hang disclaimers on the walls of customs offices notifying people that they may be arrested if they do not know the procedures in the country. Because you don´t need to be an immigrant to go through this, a tourist might as well lose his/her life due to lack of knowledge of procedures.

 

If you believe the second approach is the right one then you think help professionals must be qualified, trained and ready to respond to a great variety of situations on account that their job is crucially important and understanding the situation at hand and being able to extend proper help regardless of how complicated the situation can be, is their utmost priority.

 

Furthermore, the family is reported to have correctly explained the problem, giving proper directions to their location but were responded with silly questions like: "what is your job?" etc. Being furious when no help was sent they call the service angrily this time, the police gets there and the situation becomes terribly chaotic.

 

I can´t claim the family handled situation correctly. How come can you be certain about the emergency service´s way of handling all this? I have also listened to the translations of telephone conversations between the police and the emergency service and I think, the general lack of attention and evident prejudiced apprach justifies the headline I chose.

 

Let´s isolate this incident from war of civilizations. Let us blame institutions or people for what they do or what they don´t do. I hope the Norwegian government investigates this and makes a satisfying explanation. I also hope they train their emergency personnel to handle inquiries from foreigners properly. 

 

 



Edited (1/10/2010) by vineyards
Edited (1/10/2010) by vineyards
Edited (1/10/2010) by vineyards [Omissions]



Thread: Norway does it again

574.       vineyards
1954 posts
 10 Jan 2010 Sun 12:10 am

Well, there are plenty of other links as well. It is just a matter of checking them.

 

Today, the incident was on the news. Turkey gave a note to Norway asking them to investigate the matter thoroughly.

 

 



Thread: Norway does it again

575.       vineyards
1954 posts
 09 Jan 2010 Sat 10:45 pm

Certainly not. We are talking about the conduct of public institutions. In this particular incident, two different public instutions are involved. The way they handled the situation is on file. The prejudicial statements are openly communicated. In the end, an old lady who would propably survive were the situation not handled like that, lost her life. This is no joke. I am deeply suspicious of the anti Islamic sentiment in Europe.



Edited (1/9/2010) by vineyards



Thread: Norway does it again

576.       vineyards
1954 posts
 09 Jan 2010 Sat 08:00 pm

http://www.learnist.org/norwegian-police-let-old-turkish-woman-die/

 

You may have heard of a Turkish family in Norway calling the emergency service asking for an ambulance to save their dieing mother. Instead of help, they are faced by the prejudices about what might actually have happened. The telephone conversations on record indicate that the emergency service becomes suspicious of the family and call the police instead of sending an ambulance. The lady on the phone reports the incident to the police saying: "...there is a strange family on the line, probably Pakistani or something like that. We are suspicious of them. We want you to check the place before we get there. Probably nothing will come out of it."

 

The family reacts to the police car saying we asked for an ambulance and there is a state of panic, yelling and chaos.

 

The old lady dies in the end.  Congratulations emergency service.



Edited (1/9/2010) by vineyards



Thread: All Men Watch Porn, Scientists Find

577.       vineyards
1954 posts
 08 Jan 2010 Fri 08:36 pm

Well, let´s do some Aristo logic:

 

all men watch porn

Pope Benedict is a male

therefore he watches porn too

I wonder what his preferences are like.



Thread: Norwegian newspaper publishes new Muhammad caricatures

578.       vineyards
1954 posts
 08 Jan 2010 Fri 06:01 pm

There is a saying in Turkish: "Now that you don´t know how to swim, why the hell did you climb on that tree."  It is surely an equivocal expression and it explains the situation Westergarrd is in.

 

Westergaard and his followers pioneer a defiant movement whose apparent purpose is to exercise freedom of expression by way of depicting Mohammad as a terrorist. They know that the defiant movement they started have already claimed lives. True they may not be held directly responsible for that but any sane person with a constructive attitude would at least accept that issueing those cartoons will not amount to anything other than pouring gas on the fire of ignorance.

 

One would also expect a man like him to be a bit bold now that he is waging a war against the backward half of the world. Now this guy has an armoured chamber in his house. That is quite normal. He feels threatened therefore he has every right to protect himself as much as he can.

His granddaughter happens to be with him in his house the day his house was attacked by an angry idiot. This guy leaves the granddaughter in the living room and he locks himself up in the armoured chamber alone. What a dauntless defender of freedom! At this point, we remember the Turkish saying in the first paragraph. It fits here quite nicely. It also explains a few other things. This guy must be aware of the anti-Islamic sentiment in Europe. He knows how public support is won. After all politicians are using the same method for winning elections.

 

I don´t have the ego to launch myself as the patron of freedoms but if a murderer breaks in my house, he cannot touch my granddaughter before he treads on my corpse and period...

 

Quoting foka

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland/article/detail/1051277/2010/01/08/Noorse-krant-publiceert-opnieuw-Mohammed-karikaturen.dhtml

 

After the failed attack on the Danish cartoonist Kurt Westergaard, the Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten Friday´s controversial Mohammed caricatures and other drawings of the Prophet reprint. This newspaper wanted to show her readers what it really is, "said editor Hilde Haugsgjerd.
Last week, a suspected Islamist Somalia from the Danish cartoonist in his house attacked. The artist could until the arrival of the police in a room entrench.
 
Indignation
The Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten in September 2005 had twelve caricatures of Muhammad published by various artists. That provoked the Muslim world in a wave of indignation, which degenerated into riots and demonstrations. In Islam, the image of the Prophet Muhammad prohibited.
 
Press freedom
The cartoons also led to a discussion on media and press freedom. "We have always defended the right to publish these drawings, and we also have copies printed when the debate erupted in 2005," said Haugsgjerd.

 

 



Edited (1/8/2010) by vineyards



Thread: a question you´d like to ask other tc-ists

579.       vineyards
1954 posts
 06 Jan 2010 Wed 02:23 am

 

Quoting ReyhanL

To the admins of this site:

 

     Why you need to make a council to debate about deleating an user´s account a person who kept insulting people( and you) for years ? Looking at someone´s personal pictures and telling her baby´s stupid is a reason to think twice before clicking ´deleat account´ button ?

 

 How come do you know about these councils?  Are there little birds among us?



Thread: British Visa for Turkish Citizens

580.       vineyards
1954 posts
 05 Jan 2010 Tue 02:09 am

The problem is there is probably more hype in international law and diplomatic procedures than anything else.

 

We do require a visa of German citizens but this is only on paper. Because we also do our best to ensure that potential German tourits are not discouraged in any way. There is a well known proverb in Turkish: one who plans to steal a minaret will arrange the sack to fit it in. So, the obligatory visas are served at the airports. It is easy to get them as it is to get boarding passes.



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