I get the feeling I might already be able to guess some of the answer, but I'd rather hear it from actual Turks.

One thing I've noticed over time from talking to my Turkish friends from high school and from a Turkish woman I met earlier this year is that Turks seem to compartmentalize anything from the Ottoman era as being done by "someone else." "That was the Ottoman Empire..."

Yes, it was effectively a different country, but wasn't it more or less the same "people?" By this I mean, weren't the Ottomans Turks?

To me, coming from a European/American perspective this is rather curious. Italians seem rather proud of their Roman forebearers (though perhaps the historical distance makes this easier). I was intrigued when I found out I was a rather distant descendant of a european Emperor (not Roman). I have a difficulty understanding why today's Turks seem to want to distance themselves from the Ottoman Empire.

Of course, the one counter-argument that I could come up with to all of that is that the single most popular name amongst Turkish guys I went to school with was Suleiman. I think I know who they were named after.

thats interesting that u say that because most of the ones who i have come accross seem to have the total opposite opinion....
tell me experts... what does that mean??

Yes, i also had the feeling that Turks are rather proud of their country.. i've been told most of them know the history of their country damn well..

Funny thing is, ive never felt the 'urge' to learn about dutch history, but i seem to feel that i wanna learn Turkish history.. does anyone suggest a simple book about history? I got one from my boyfriend, but it's very difficult to read.. i'd rather read something easy first and then read the difficult one. i havent got much time, so i prefer to learn by small and easy pieces Once i have more time, i'll conquer the big difficult stuff

Yes - I agree Miss C and Deli - most Turks I have met are proud to say they are "grandsons of Ottomans"

Ok, i understand you Looking forward to hear a smart answer from a smart.. ottoman? turk? anyone?

From a Turk, silly. I'm fairly certain all of the Ottomans are now deceased. OK, I'm not going to put a smiley on that one.

As a footnote, most folks here in the U.S. that aren't well-educated probably don't even know that there ever was an Ottoman Empire. When they hear "Ottoman," they think of a piece of furniture.

Our "global stupidity" over here isn't necessarily intentional, we're just geographically isolated. Americans tend to look down on Mexicans and think of Canadians as Americans that say "aboot" and enjoy hockey a bit too much.

Because we tend to not travel to other countries we also tend not to learn much about them. We are a very parochial people. I'm embarrassed to admit the only other country I've ever been to is Canada. And that's because I lived around 70 miles from the border. That's one more country than about 95% of Americans have been to.

I suppose the most I can say for myself is that I'm at least interested in learning about other countries. Hence my questions here.

i am a Turk! and i am proud of some what my ancestors did and some sad about the other things.. but ppl need to be fine with their past and this doesnt have to affect what they will do... and this doesnt affect their looking to humanbeings.. anyway if you wanna learn about Ottoman Empires there was a book with 5 volumes and it was the most objective one i met.. and i totally recommend you to read the Kemal Atatürks "NUTUK" to learn about near past...

if you want to read more about turkish history you should read the cresent and the star. i cannot remember who it ıs by, but it gives a great perspective on turkey without being very pro or very con turkry

to understand dis situation, we must look the historical process turkish society lived.ottomns governed the country from one hand..padişah.....bfor he decide something he asked the religious authority and the experinced statesmen.
now we vote and chose our won leaders....look the differency....and we always thaught ''the padişahs decide wad they want,they cut heads and kills people'' maybe dis is for making us to believe republic is better than monarchy....and so we tried to change for years....we tried to forget who we r....and we forget much things from ourselves.....and we couldnt forget many things too...and now we r in middle.....and dunno wad to do....
somebody want us to hate our history...they achieved much.....we dont like ottomans...we dunno our past...we dunno who we r...we do just wad we see from holywood films...and try to imitate them....
its not bad but now we eat at mcdonalds,drink cocacola....we r now here in the middle...we r not old turks and not real turks...we r not from east nor west...middle...

ramoş... hehe... that was very well put.. aferin...

I understand you Tim. You're not wrong in fact. I'm afraid my english isn't very good to explain well what I want to. There may be different answers to this, but I am going to say what I think and know. We're proud of being Turk maybe we have a reason such as having a proudful history maybe sometimes it's more than enough. At school the complete Turkish history is taught, so that's a very long history, and Ottoman time is a period that's more than 600 years. When we're proud of being turk, it comes from the history and the turkish history isn't separated from Ottoman time. It's such a long time, there had been gold times, but also falling time of the empire.in the ends of 19th century and till 1920s, the Ottoman government was no more powerful and was no more working for the Anatolian people. Ottoman empire was far behind the age and civilisation. After WW1, the ottoman empire was going to diminish from history, so the Turks were going to lose their freedom, independence. The ottoman government and sultan were ready to be under the control of the big countries especially England. So, the Turks needed a leader to save them and to fight against the big powers that want to erase the Turks from Anatolia. So, it was Mustafa Kemal (Atatürk). With thousands of difficulties, with the leadership of M.Kemal Turkish people fighted against both the Ottoman government, sultan and the exterior powers (England, Greece, France etc.) and in the end they saved the Turkish nation and got our independence. Trkish Republic was founded. Later a lot of reforms were made. So, after 1923 it is a new page for the Turks. Otherwise, the Turks would have diminished. By Mustafa Kemal, being a nation got a meaning, and if we want to get far beyond the civilized, developped countries, we should follow M.Kemal's principles, we should be aware of our history, but the direction isn't backward, but it's always further. We should protect our independence, and shouldn't try to get back to the Ottoman Time, because it's in the past, and it was an empire, it's just left in the history books, but now we're a nation and an independent secular republic, so our inspiration is Atatürk's principles. "Ne mutlu Türküm diyene!!!! ehehehe ok ok I stop.

Merhaba mltm. Well said! Your english is very good.The turkish people must be very proud of their achievments over the past 80 years.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone (well, except for that one guy up there, heh).

I suspect the "those were the Ottomans" responses I've gotten had more to do with what I was discussing at the time than any wish to compartmentalize their (Ottoman Empire) doings.

When I started reading this sequence, I found first a reasonable question by TimRoy, who managed subsequently to maintain his cool despite what seemed to be totally unjustified accusations. As I continued my reading it became clear that there was some scatalogical nitwit who had entered the discussion with remarks which somehow became attributed to TimRoy. I am very glad that the matter was cleared up. I assume that the administrator caught that entry and removed it, so all I saw of it was in quotes by other members, and this caused my bewilderment.

I appreciated particularly the response by mltm, which was very pertinent and thoughtful. And please, mltm, don't worry about your English. Fortunately, English is a language which can be mangled and yet understood, and you made your points very clear and thank you for them.

I am new to this forum and have hopes that I can find in it serious discussions of topics related to Turkey, its history, culture, language, literature, and even politics and current events. I will have the opportunity of visiting Turkey this April/May, spending two weeks on an archeological tour of Anatolia and then spending an additional two weeks exploring Istanbul - the city in the entire world that I have for years most wanted to see. I am most excited about it and, besides trying to learn as much Turkish as I can (I have no teacher), I have been reading a great deal more about the country. Earlier I have studied the Byzantine and Ottoman Empires, but it is only recently that I have begun a study of the Republic. I am absolutely amazed what one man, Kemal Ataturk (sorry, I don't know how to make the umlaut u), was able to accomplish. He was a phenomenon! The great respect that the Turks have for him is easily understandable, as I, a foreigner, have it myself.

I tend to go on at length, and for that I apologize. Enough for now!

we achieved many things well done us...i wish we could achieve dis except losing many things that make us turk(different)...everyday we are becoming same with american (holywood) culture.....

This is a good topic. When reading these lines I realised that there isn't enough information on this website about Turkish history. Maybe a more respecful place in the forum could also be considered.

Some unlucky messages have been removed by another moderator and recently by me. Thank you for your patience.

no need to worry erdinc...if we are here that means we will be patient soon...heheheh...anyway...thanks for your efforts....moderators...(normally i dont like them...but here moderators are even kind ...hehehhe...lyndie...im not talking about u...heheheh

The Turks I know too are very proud of the Ottaman emprire - and went to great lengths the first time we met to tell me all about it. And when you are slightly drunk at the time it all makes so much sense!!